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ridiculous amount of problems live, Belgium, Germany

Discussion in 'Technical Issues' started by John Daminato_Tf, Nov 3, 2007.

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  1. fciapi

    fciapi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    22
    I can't do much testing right now, I think I received a defective Audio 8 DJ. I'm in contact with support so hopefully they will fix (or exchange) this.
    What I know is that I can mix with SSL just like I did with common vinyl.
    Any drifting should be caused by the decks or the records (if they are bent, like those I received with traktor scratch).
     
  2. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    what were your exact defects? Bent records?
     
  3. fciapi

    fciapi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    22
    one bent record and this
     
  4. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    hmmm, that kinda sucks. Well probably just a simple return, but if the next unit has the same problem....
     
  5. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

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    134
    I did my first test and the results are quite interesting. I need to refine them tho. I need to run the output directly from the hardware directly into my motu. Either way, Melodyne shows there is a ton of pitch fluctuation. But its really subtle and very consistent within the pattern and my thoughts are that is just a normal turntable fluctuation...But according to SL the pitch never changed, but maybe its less then .0 so it wont show. I need to test the CD decks to see if this happens. If the pitch fluctuation is the same off the cd decks, then I might have to logically assume, SL is the main contributor of this.
     
  6. fciapi

    fciapi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    22
    Interesting test. Are you sure the pitch never changes on the record? How does absolute mode works if there's no difference in the control signal along the record ?
     
  7. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,792
    that's not a drift, that may be due to your records. there were some charges, that were pressed excentered, causing this issue.
    try, if both sides of the record behave the same. you can even try your FS records to check if thats making a difference.
     
  8. nopattern773

    nopattern773 Forum Member

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    you should try changing the sensitivity of the pitch sliders to coarse. The 2khz timecode is no joke, it's super sensitive. I have found that in relative mode with low sensitivity the vinyl feels as stable as cd's. I have played with ts in really loud settings and never had an issue with the vinyl. you just have to tweak it out for your computer and mixing style

    watch the phase meters and see if they wobble, if so, your vinyls might be off. i used to get that with serato vinyl before. and yes, the display in 1.1 is smoothed out so you wont see small fluctuations on the screen although they might be happening. watch the phase meter to see if it's your records

    with the sensitivity on coarse, it seems like the program ignores any standard flutters of the turntable, its really nice
     
  9. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    Wait, what are you talking about, there are some charges that were pressed excentered? What are charges and I cant even find the definition of excentered. Why was this not mentioned to me before with all the issues Iam having?
     
  10. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    Ahh, nice one, didnt realize you could adjust the sliders in this manner. I will have to look at that, must of missed it in the manual.

    I just did a gig at a local club in Chicago, this time i used the CDJ 1000's with control disks. It was about 5 times easier to work with and I was playing broken beat jazz for the first hour. My next test is going to be putting a few subwoofers next to the control vinyl while I play the tone and see if I can get it to malfunction. This test should closely resemble whats happening in the club.

    Hey buddy I just went thru the entire Traktor Scratch ware and could not find one setting for coarse..Are you talking about Traktor3 vs Traktor Scratch?
     
  11. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,792
    this affects the syncing - and i got to know from this issue only a few weeks ago. i have such records, too - the right expression should be off-center.

    in T33 you can check how much off-center your record is pressed.
    load the same track into both decks. let the one run in internal mode, the other via turntable control. click on sync on the turntable controlled track and let it clicked. you will see the pitch go up and down (in the prefs, the pitch fader has to be on +/- 8%).

    e.g. here the results for my records.

    10 minute side: 0.4 - 0.5
    15 minute side: 0.0 - 0.1

    this means: on my 10 minute side with turntable control on BOTH sides, i could have a difference of 0.8 % - of course syncing will fail badly. the other side however is fine.

    check this out with your records and contact support if you're having the same issue, but i dont know if and how they handle replacements.
     
  12. nopattern773

    nopattern773 Forum Member

    Messages:
    53
    No, this works in Traktor 1.1, if you look at the little + - buttons underneath the pitch fader, you can just right click it and the menu will appear. every single knob and slider has this option

    I think i was wrong though, this doesnt have any effect when you play the control vinyl, or maybe it does in relative mode? i dunno..

    i think the most important thing is to make sure the BPM analysis
    of your tracks is right on. The analysis is usually wrong and i have to go back and verify it with a grid. I don't actually leave the beatgrid on the track though, just use it to verify the exact tempo. this makes a big difference when syncing things up exactly...

    Also, I dont think the subs will disrupt the code on the vinyl. It's my understanding that TS has a lowpass filter is built in to prevent such things from happening. I just played a show on saturday and there were 2 dual 18" cabinets less that a foot from the decks and it still worked perfect... much much better than what serato would do
     
  13. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    NOpattern,

    Im not syncing within the ware using beat grids, Im syncing using my ears..Im using Traktor Scratch 1.bla bla not Traktor dj. But hey your right, I just opened Traktor Scratch and it right clicked the + button and saw it had coarse.

    Native Girl, does this coarse setting ignore the tiny pitch fluctuations from analog turntables?
     
  14. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    I will be pissed off and at the same time releaved if this is actually the problem...Those type of pitch fluctuations for sure would make beatmatching alot more difficult. Of course tho, you said you werent having anytrouble in the club...EH?

    native girl, where is the sync button in Traktor scratch? Its not in manual, but maybe they left that out too...
    Second, my records have a 12minute side and a 17minute side?

    Are we working on the same system? Seriously?
     
  15. nopattern773

    nopattern773 Forum Member

    Messages:
    53
    first off, beatgrids dont sync anything, neither does traktor scratch. I'm using traktor scratch 1.1 with the control vinyl and mix by ear, was a vinyl Dj 6 years prior to buying this... beatgrids dont really matter when you play the control records but they are useful in verifying the tempo of a track. Traktor needs to know the right speed or it will calculate the wrong speeds based on the pitch changes you make. I said to use grids cause then you can know for sure that the tempo is correct and it makes a difference

    with that being said. i use traktor in a loud enviornment on a regular basis and have few problems holding long, tight mixes.
     
  16. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,792
    i have my 3rd set of records now, that's one reason (i had white labels during the betatest and got official records way later. scratched them accidentally and got a third pair - this is the one which is pressed badly).

    then, only one side of the records is affected. in the beginning i used the 15' side usually, way later i started using the 10' side, which is the problematic.

    third, when beatmatching by ear, you're constantly *doing* something on the turntable anyways. when using beatgrids and the sync button (sorry, it's of course T33 with the sync button, not TS), you shouldnt have to. so with T33 the problem of the records got apparent and measurable and the culprit found.

    no, it's T33 which lets you sync by a click (if you want to).
    you can try the demo if you like to.

    10 + 2 and 15 + 2.

    the last 2 minutes are usually used for playlist scrolling... ;)
     
  17. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    I see, I really don't want a demo, I think I have version 2 because in came with FS2 at the time.

    How do I check these off center problems with my system?

    Also I did sync to tracks by loading the same track on both sides. Hitting start on both decks at the same time and then using the phase fine tune to lock em perfect. They drift pretty fast, not disgustingly fast but within maybe 10-15 seconds you will start to see the phase slipping..Its also worth noting that I have the new techniques and it still drifts with the center locks on..

    So what is the drift, analog turntables or?
     
  18. John Daminato_Tf

    John Daminato_Tf NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    134
    Technically if the tempo is calculated wrong, this shouldn't effect manual beat matching..Corect? When I mix in key, I will then use the key lock in most cases..Hmmm, I wonder....
    Once you match the records by ear, there shouldnt be a huge problem with keeping them together no matter what the calculated tempo is, your just raising the pitch. But when Im using Key lock (Time stretching) with wrong tempos calculated maybe its a big problem. I guess I have to test this too, how many hours and aspects do I have to test this system. N.I. Should just hire me at this point..
    Im glad to hear you say at loud volumes you can feel it becomes more difficult to match beats with this system. Why do you think this is?
    Im telling you at one event I played at, my monitor was just 2 15" subs behind me on the floor and earthquake style cabinet and the system went into relative mode and would not let me switch into cue mode and at this point matching beats was so frustrating, its not even funny. N.I has not gave me the answer to this. They think its a cpu problem..What cpu problem will cause my system to only go into relative mode at high bass volumes..Seriously?
     
  19. nopattern773

    nopattern773 Forum Member

    Messages:
    53
    i think the keylock is your problem, ive never used it but ive heard that it has all kinds of problems like what you are describing. Also, I didn't say it becomes more difficult to match beats at loud volumes, i havent had any problems with that honestly.

    I will say that when i first got traktor and had not analyzed my tracks, it was harder to keep long mixes in time, but as soon as i analyzed things and verified them, it was much much easier. beatgrids are also useful cause i think traktor lays it's markers on the wrong part of the beat sometimes so the program will try and lay the wrong beats on top of each other. Locking the BPM it at 100% is also important cause i think the program will keep trying to recalculate if it's not sure of the tempo.

    Maybe you are putting too much stress on your USB or something, that could be it too? I've heard of problems like this as well

    I do agree with you that NI has horrible support, but everyone knows that already. I guess I was spoiled when i was using serato, the support is amazing. It's not very reassuring when I make part of my living off Djing and I can't get basic technical help to do my job from NI. I keep getting responses from Jason Emsely saying "read pg xxx of the manual and let me know" its a joke and if they dont get their at together, people will stop supporting them including me
     
  20. nopattern773

    nopattern773 Forum Member

    Messages:
    53
    it's not your tables, trust me. maybe needles or dirty records though? the only reason it will switch to relative to my knowledge is if the calibration fails.
     
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