Rig Kontrol 3

Reading all that stuff, one thing occured to me. Wouldn't it be great if you could just load your presets onto a pedal like RK and not have to carry a fragile laptop to gigs? I think that would be a logical next step for NI. Of course, this pedal would need an independent power source, a display and some basic EQ and other settings as well to allow small adjustments needed for different PA's, which would also make it more expensive. But that would be just the thing to make GR2 really portable...

 

You forgot the Processor and 1 GB of RAM, as something in there has to (re)create the effects ;-) Not a cheap little unit...
But the idea is not bad, only I think NI's strategy is that "why pay for two computers when you can use the one you already have for all the stuff cheaper".
With two computers I mean one in the effect unit + the pc/Mac, which in this case will be reduced to just a patch editor & librarian - and that's a waste of power for such simple tasks.
But the price of components is falling, and perhaps there is a market for such a box as an alternative; "the gig version" of GuitarRig. Most studio users & occacional giggers will probably be happy with the concept as it is today.

 

Absolutely right! I have a whole bunch of those "all-in-one" pedal boards, and while I love them and use them, what I love about Guitar Rig is the fact that it's NOT one of those things. For example, it's not so easy using a hardware FX unit as a VST plug-in - something software can do almost effortlessly that just delights the heck out of me.
Yeah, it'd have to be some sort of add-on if it ever came to that sort of hardware integration, but definitely not the main concept. It really is good as it is, and can only get better as technology does likewise. And anyhow, I love the knowledge that I have at my disposal such an immensely powerful rack of everything I need for guitar literally at my fingertips - whether it be portable or desktop based, and no matter where I am.

 

a beef-i-er USB connection would be sweet. something locking. It's the only vulnerable part of my rig.

 

I don't see how it could hurt. I still think that that would be a logical progression, since NI is now offering several hardware devices (like Kore, RK2, AK), as well as software. I stopped gigging with GR2 because I grew increasingly weary of all the close calls I had with my laptop. I mean, it might be fine if you're doing jazz but when you're playing on a small stage to a crowd of enthusiastic beer drinkers, things get knocked about...

 

Perhaps in part... But then, if I'm not mistaken, hardware devices like Kore are really but an add-on to the software to aid in processing, realtime tweaking, patch search functions and the like - they aren't independent. So as it is, you'd still need the computer. It's still a far cry from a GT-8 or VG-88 in terms of grab your hardware and go gig.
But then again, I have absolutely nothing against the possibility of solidly independent hardware, just so long as it's separate from the software only version. I wouldn't want to see it actually replaced.

 

It seems you got me wrong, I was precisely talking about a pedal to which you could download your presets (ie. independent from the software)...

 

Sorry about that then - didn't mean to misunderstand. In that case, I think it'd be very cool to have some kind of pedal board which could sync up to the software for preset loading. Only I wonder: would this hardware function something like a sample player, where you merely play through the sounds loaded into it, or would there be some sort of editing ability built in? Because as someone said earlier, if hardware gets too independent, then the software becomes little more than an editor/librarian interface (if I'm not misquoting). Obviously there would have to be some sort of "tweakability", just how deep do you go is the question. I can see at the opposite end of the spectrum is a piece of hardware entirely separate from the software, but the software is in the hardware. Then maybe an ultra-light version of the software is released along with it - ultra-light meaning an editor that looks just like GR as we know it made to interface with the "real" software inside the hardware body. Then, as a simple matter of course, the optional full blown software version (i.e. GR2) would necessarily support the hardware as well. It may well have to get rather extensive to ensure maximum compatibility all 'round, but it sure as heck would be cool.

 

It's not enough to have somewhere to just "load the presets", and a "sample player" wouldn't help much either; GuitarRig's effects are live, created on the fly, just like any traditional guitar effects. For that you need a processor. The difference is that GuitarRig is Windows/Mac software installed on a standard PC/Mac, instead of embedded (pre-installed) software in a custom built computer, which in effect(!) is what any digital guitar effect unit is, from the stomp boxes like digital dealy and digital chorus, via multi effect floor units to rack units. To make an (even more) portable version of GuitarRig you would need a kind of RigKontrol unit with a built in PC or Mac motherboard, running Windows / Mac OS and with one of the strongest processors. Add that to the price! There are 'embedded' versions of Windows (requiering less memory, so it can run from ROM, not harddisk), but I doubt it is possible to run GuitarRig on that version. Linux would be an ideal OS for this purpose, as it is possible to shrink it to come with only the required functions so you could save the need of a harddisk, but there is no Linux version of GuitarRig as of now. Developing that would be costly, even if Linux and Mac OS are related (siblings?) at the core level, so that some of the work is already done. The idea of an all-in-one unit is good, as undoubtly such a unit would be more solid and rugged than RigKontrol and a loptop computer combined and with that fragile USB cable, but: it would come at a price - literally.

 

Yeah, you're absolutely right about that, except...... A sample player would be pretty cool IF (and admittedly it's a big IF) there were a certain 13-pin facility (hint, hint), and IF it's tracking were good enough. For those of us willing to put the CPU cycles to work, I'd really love to see what a whole computer could do for this area of guitar synthesis. And I say again, NI is one heck of a synth company; if it could be done, might it not be they what could do it?
I live and breathe to see the ultimate fusion of electric guitar and synthesis come together. The guitar, in it's native, organic form is simply capable of things that a keyboard, by it very design, will never accomplish. In this fantasy world I live in, a sample player would belong every bit as much to the guitarist as it does to the keyboardist. At that time "Synthesist" will become a universal term applicable to just about any instrumentalist. I mean, if there's such a thing as MIDI bagpipes.....!

 

Attention Ni!

13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...
13-pin synth tracking please...

 

The one thing I would get me to buy an RK3 above anything (save for more knobs/a second pedal/built-in tuner) would be a small electronic display above the knobs and pedals to indicate what each one controls. This has already been done by the Novation Remote MIDI controller line, and it works perfectly. The only drawback to this would be a possible need for an external power supply, but it could simply be an optional thing, like it could disable the displays when no external power supply is detected but otherwise work normally through the USB cable.

EDIT: Synth access! That should certainly be in the next version. If I could control NI's Massive through a guitar...holy **** I would be in sonic heaven.

 

better to keep it small. add the 4 expression pedals as an option - a separate board that hooks together with the small one. that way you get the best of both worlds. i don't care about any additions, aside from a tuner and a more secure way of attaching to the computer.

 

The display suggestion is a good one.
I like the size and construction of RigKontrol2 very well as it is, except I personally prefer silent switches.
More possibilities to extend it are very welcome: The analog inputs should accept momentary and on/off switching in addition to continous controllers (expression pedals), and not the least: a functional Midi IN, thank you! I know that the input already 'functions' somewhat when RK2 is used as a MIDI device for a sequencer, but it should function towards GuitarRig too, of course. With this one could connect other pedal boards, a Theremin controller (antenna), ribbon controllers - I've even heard of a phaser/flanger recently that is controlled with a ring on your finger. There are so many crazy gadgets out there, make that two Midi INs...

 

but keyboard players don't step on their rig. tiny displays next to each button sounds like a nightmare. also keyboardists aren't 5-6 feet from their rigs, making it easier to read smaller and dimmer displays.

 

I know, which is why the displays would have to have large character sizes, be very bright, and be very simple in order for a guitarist to read them even from a few feet away. For instance, if i had a Big Muff effect assigned to one of the triggers, no matter which kind of effect it is, the display would say BIGMUFF or anything else if a user wants to see something different. There would be limit to the amount of characters on the display, something like seven letters, but it would help to have a cohesive understanding of which knob applies to what effect over the number of presets without memorization or checking the computer screen.

In fact, think about the number display on the RK2. It's clearly seen from a few feet away and. Now imagine it above each knob and a bit longer in size. The RK3 would have to additionally be larger and more expensive to accommodate the displays, but it would be worth it.

 

Rig Kontrol 3 requests, for live work.

Please include on the next version.:lol:
1)XLR outputs for main out.
2)More bottons. In a live setting the current controller is almost worthless. If the setting that you want to goto live is not in a the nextpreset or previous preset you have to scroll thru them live. If you had more bottons then you could hit botton 10 to go to preset 10 then botton 2 to goto preset 2 instead of scrolling thru the presets live and the output going crazy between preset. For a home studio the current footcontroller would be fine, but not live for the musician's that you are tageting your product (Guitar Rig) for.
3) Have 2 expression pedals.

 

I also want more switches and expression pedals (just look at the first post), but I see now that it would be impractical for the typical giging guitarist. I still want the option, though, to have more switches and pedals with out getting a midi controller. I've looked everywhere for a midi controller or an expression pedal that includes the toe switch, and no one makes them. Unless GR3 uses the programming idea I thought of under the "discovered something cool; it can be made cooler" thread, then they should include addon expression pedals with toe switches.

I deffinitely want knobs. probably 8 so I can assign them to the maximum 7 knobs on an amp and leave one for the master volume of the rig. It'd be nice if there were some kind of mode switch that changed collectively what the knobs where assigned to, so if I had multiple amps in a set up I could tweak them live one at a time.

...and what if instead of USB, the pedal conected via PCI or PCMCI card using a LAN cable. I know NI wants to keep the cost of GR3 down, but I would pay extra for this.

 

People have different needs. For those who prefer 10-12 swithces, there are already several boards on the market that let you do this, and they're comptible with GuitarRig. The relative small number of buttons on RigKontrol 2 is a good thing for others. You don't have to worry about losing your balance, don't have to step out so long to reach from one end to the other, don't have to look like you're practicing riverdance...
Additional expression pedals can already be connected (I have one), but it would perhaps look more stylish if it looked similar of course.

For live use, or even in the practice room, I NEVER go from say preset 8 to preset 24 to preset 71 anymore; hence I don't need 10/12 switches (1-10 plus bank up/down). It may be a 'hidden trick' somewhat, but in GuitarRig it is dead easy to create setlists, and then I simply step through that with one switch (or back for rehersal). Most bands operate with setlists these days, no? You can have a practically unlimited number of folders like those already in GuitarRig like "best of GuitarRig 1", "70s rock" etc.. , so you can name a new folder "Setlist v6 2007" for instance. Drag (copy) the presets you need for the songs in the setlist from other folders into the new folder, and voila! Switch sequence of songs? It takes seconds to drag the associated presets to a new position. You do perhaps need to be a little more structured than most guitarists are used to(?), but when you're getting into this method of working, it is very convenient and: you don't need to remember a lot of numbers for your presets anymore while playing. I personally really like that. When I go to a rehersal where I know we're going to practive four tunes, I can create a folder with just those relevant presets in (and delete it later). My bandmates appreciate that I spend less time staring into a display and focus more on playing...
It can be a challenge to administrate various instances of the same preset though (i.e. my favourite semi distortion is found in almost every setlist folder I have - what if I change it a little in one folder only? Which one is the keeper?), and I wish NI could offer some kind of tool here...

About USB versus LAN/Ethernet cable, the latter can be as long as you like, it's a cheap cable, and even the standard plug is locked in place firmly. Only USB (or Firewire) can bring power to the RigKontrol device however, so there's a tradeoff.

 

A PCI or PCMCI card can supply power over an ethernet cable. Creative utilizes this in their sound cards and audio docks.

It dawned on me that GR3 will probably be backwards compatible with RK2, so for the guitarists out there who require simplicity still have that option.

I've gotten pretty good at river dancing over the years. To replicate my analoge setup, it's easiest for me if I have more switch/exp pedal choices at my disposal. If NI actually implements some sort of guitar synth, then I'd need a pedal for synth volume, a pedal to double between guitar volume and wah, a pedal to turn on and use the whammy, and a pedal to pan (or warp?) beween clean and distorted amps. I'd also need switches for flange, delay, reverb, and the looper. that's my typical setup for one song. It would take me forever, and over complicate the rig to separate it into smaller patches to step through chronologically for a show.