Rig Kontrol as a MIDI controller

Hello all, if you think this is a needed feature, reply to this post.

I use Guitar Rig 2 as a AU plugin in Ableton Live.

I had to build a cheap foot controller using an old computer keyboard (here is how: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/...ableton-footcontroller-no-soldering-required/) in able to control the ableton live's arm, record and play buttons with my foot.
I know this thing is going to break sooner than later but I don't want (read: can't afford) to buy a "real" foot controller after spending $350 on GR2.

I only use 2 of the buttons in Rig Kontrol so I have 4 unused buttons and I still have to use another controller for controlling Ableton Live.

It would be great to be able to use Rig Kontrol as a midi controler with other applications appart from guitar rig.

 

I agree with your idea, but it seems like it would be a lot of work for NI for only the people who

A. want to control other things

AND

B. wouldn't be inclined to buy other midi controllers

I think NI is trying to appeal to guitar players who are, by in large, techno phobes by offering them a one software one pedal solution to using your computer to make music; they aren't looking to enter the midi controller market as such.


on a side note, for the kind of looping you do couldn't you use the looper in GR2?

 

Yeah, I could use the loop machine, but I also have another instrument in one of the other tracks in ableton live so it's way more convenient to control everything from live.

 

I'm a Komplete 4 owner and I've been doing a lot of research into buying RK2. If I understand correctly it doesn't even send any midi data(!). So I was wondering why NI bothered to label the 2nd midi jack as a midi out - when it's really just a midi thru. Or does it even do that?

To me it seems incredible that RK2 would not send midi. I know it was made as a USB 2 controller - evidently for GR2 and nothing else. But the RK2 video tutorial even shows & describes the midi out being used to transmit "data" - it doesn't say what type of data - but since the jack is labeled "MIDI OUT" - what would be the logical assumption for most people?

I guess it's invisible, virtual data, that does nothing. Which is a bummer because if it actually did transmit midi messages I'd buy it right now.

So, getting back to part of what rafajw's asking for - why not go ahead and make that midi out fully functional? As it is, it's confusing at the least and misrepresentative and deceptive at most.

 

The MIDI in/out are functional, but not to/from GuitarRig! When RigKontrol is installed and connected on your system, it can be selected and used as a pretty ordinary soundcard and MIDI device from any sequencer out there. So for the RigKontrol owner who wants to use the odd keyboard, soundmodule, drum-machine etc. and don't have a MIDI soundcard, this is a nice bonus feature.
The buttons and the pedal are however 'dead' when used as a MIDI soundcard; RK2 does not generate MIDI (cc) signals in any way!

These connectors have a function, but it's pretty confusing for sure.

 

But Rig Lontrol 2 doesn't send any midi - correct? RK2 can't tramsmit midi volume control (cc7 etc), or program/patch change messages to anything connected to it's midi out - or does it?

As a pedal board it only communicates with GR2 and this is only via USB 2 - I just want to be sure I have this right. Because if it will do this (send midi cc messages to things in it's midi out chain), I may buy it yet.

 

Yep, that's exactly right. :|

 

This has been my biggest issue with RK from day one. If this one thing could be addressed, it would turn everything around. GR+RK would immediately become a feasible solution vs. something that, literally, sits in a box.

What makes me *insane* is that this really IS NOT very much work. I've been thinking about it increasingly lately, and there are several approaches that NI could implement in a matter of weeks, if not days, and that would be compatible w/ both RK3 and RK2. All you need to do is modify the MIDI half of the RK driver so that it optionally converts the numbers (which are already flying into your USB port) to MIDI spec and sends them out to a selectable MIDI IN port (virtual or otherwise.) Other manufacturers of software and hardware (primarily desktop MIDI controllers - mixers etc) do this very thing all the time, and users leverage these features by routing to virtual MIDI INs, for instance those provided by third-party utilities such as MIDIYoke. I realize that your average guitarist doesn't know all of this but NATIVE INSTRUMENTS IS A VERY DIVERSE MUSIC SOFTWARE COMPANY AND THEY SHOULD! There is absolutely no excuse for a blind spot like this.

Just as evidence that adding this feature isn't a big enterprise-scale undertaking, I soldered together several USB footcontrollers in my spare time, using another non-MIDI technology: game controller chips. When I was done, I hunted around the internet, and a guy in France developed the software to convert the game controller data to MIDI (via MIDIYoke in fact) in HIS spare time! With all due respect for that person's effort, this is by no means an insurmountable task for a company like NI. I would think the right person on their staff could spec it out, implement it, and release it, in no more than a month's time. If not, I want a job at NI.

A link to the aforementioned footcontroller:
http://www.decrementia.com/Content.asp?pg=USB Floorboard 2

And to mrzosonp's reply (and more importantly, to NI) techno-phobes DO NOT buy products like Guitar Rig. (They laugh at GR and buy tube amps.) Studio user's could only stand to benefit by RK being more flexible, and performers... man, let me count the ways. When you drop GR into a good VST host it becomes a more full-featured product in dozens, if not hundreds of ways. (Download a demo of Ableton and fiddle for a weekend if you doubt this.) An integrated, USB-powered audio/MIDI interface and footcontroller WOULD BE A GODSEND and THE WORD WOULD SPREAD. I know I would be singing NI's praises to the rafters if they would just get on this.

 

I want to point out (as I do repeatedly on the website I linked to) that there are presently no products on the market that would compete with an RK enhanced in this way. Find me a single floorboard that sends MIDI over USB and is bus-powered. Seems so simple (and there are dozens of mixers and control surfaces that fit the bill) but there isn't a single one.

NI stands to make the RK2/3 an incredibly saleable product. I think you'd get a new customer base via people buying GR3 because they *want* an RK, as opposed to merely owning an RK because they bought GR. *All kinds* of electronic musicians could use a flexible control surface at their feet. (Witness the success of the comparatively unweildy Behringer FCB1010.) Add audio, MIDI, and every thing else the RK gets right... it would get attention.

 

I am concidering buying a hexaphonic pickup to drive some synth sounds. This has to be done via MIDI, and I can have everything in one conventient box by using GuitarRig for my audio and a Virtual instrument of some kind for the MIDI stuff, running in parallel on the same computer. Great! With MIDI signal from RK2/3 I could change patches for both the straight guitar sound (GR) and the synth part in one step. But now I can't, and this is simply too silly! With generic MIDI boards like the Behringer and the Roland units, I can do both however. If NI has decided to take away this feature from RK2/3 by some strategy of "adding customers" by force to RigKontrol ("it is too inconvenient to use something else"), they have instead lost one...

(Worst of all, this is very probably just a software patch away. But they won't make it. So NI has very conciously left this pretty obvious feature out by purpose. I would be interested in hearing some arguments on why this is so from someone in the development team. If they feel they have a good reason it shouldn't be anything to be afraid of... )

 

So... the extra short version, minus the 'tude then... and maybe you could forward this along to the developers?

Why not augment the RK2/3 driver such that the USB events are converted and broadcasted to a virtual MIDI port?

 

well said. like whisky, fine distillation makes ones comments go down more smoothly

 

I really hope they listen to us :S

 

Sigh.