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Roli released a mdl file and demo ensemble for the Seaboard

Discussion in 'REAKTOR' started by killmaster, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. killmaster

    killmaster NI Product Owner

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  2. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    5,257
    Greg, good looking new avatar. It's yours actual?
     
  3. killmaster

    killmaster NI Product Owner

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    710
    Hi Paule, o, thanks... yes. from few months ago...
     
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  4. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    5,257
    Is the beart longer than in the pic?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  5. killmaster

    killmaster NI Product Owner

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    710
    its seems to keep getting longer. I'm waiting for it to stop.
     
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  6. rulgert ghostalker

    rulgert ghostalker NI Product Owner

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    402
    i should study this.....i want to build a Linnstrument 128 specific MPE MIDI handler....at some point, not right now though.
     
  7. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

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    574
    what does midi handler mean?
     
  8. p1afff

    p1afff NI Product Owner

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    1,021
    Several MPE ens in the UL already...
     
  9. killmaster

    killmaster NI Product Owner

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    710
    for me, the one I posted here is the only one that seems to work without hiccups.
     
  10. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

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    574
    for me all uploads work fine.
    btw if you have trouble in bitwig 2.4 with the sliders and xy of your roli... try the linnstrument script. :)
     
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  11. rulgert ghostalker

    rulgert ghostalker NI Product Owner

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    402
    salamander calls MIDI data circuits MIDI handlers....i haven't spent much time studying MPE since those initial questions, early RG-1, but hopefully get to it in the next few months..."MPE front end" i was calling it back then, what do you call it?
     
  12. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

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    574
    i still dont exactly know what you mean.
    are you talking about mpe voice distribution or mpe tools/midieffects/arp
     
  13. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    5,257
    To trade with midi files?
     
  14. rulgert ghostalker

    rulgert ghostalker NI Product Owner

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    402
    i could say yes, in general or pertaining to....but then i could also say no and endlessly go on about the details of the wording...
    i mean the non-specifics of any elements involved in MIDI data routing to or from the rest of the structure, in general, those elements as a cumulative.
     
  15. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

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    574
    its seems the roli macro is dealing the mpe things very good.
    it uses an instrument per channel each to filter out the midi data and route(merge) them into pre assinged voices. so midi channel 2 is allways routed into Voice 1 of reaktor.
    this is exactly what linnstrument users want for the channel per row mode. (roli users don`t really recognize a difference).
    works super solid, thanks to ROLI for the nice idea. so far i can judge, this is the cleanest method to do mpe voice distribution. its just routing single midi inputs, no Chan. message module is used.
    upload_2018-11-12_19-28-35.png

    one of my tasks atm is to work out the best mpe voice distribution macro (for my needs). the roli macro lacks voice management control (legato, retrigger, etc). but i guess that can be done, if one is experienced with midi and reaktor. didn`t got the time to dig deeper into the midi logic things inside reaktor. i guess taking the single ST Gate module (what they do atm) + the normal Gate module and do some logic (-> any voice active?) could do the job. but haven`t tried it yet.

    another solution is the "Micro PRISM MPE" contained macro (by Diedrich Pank?).
    its the most elegant looking solution. one channel message module to rule them all. one core cell does the data sorting.
    upload_2018-11-12_19-14-20.png
    i messed around with this stuff, but the playablility always felt wrong to me.
    (selfmade filter core cell, as well as this one)

    but maybe the reason is: last weekend i messed a bit with ColBs Note In Util Block. the playability is beautiful!
    the only feature i miss is taking the "On/Off Velocity" into account when retriggering notes.

    and there is Gustavo Elizondos work. iirc he uses(combined) 8x the Note In Util block in one macro.
    this is the macro i went in my mpe ensembles so far.
    in Geetar MPE i used a slightly modified version of it.
    maybe taking some time and adding the "take off velocity into account on retrigger" would be the fastest method.
    but somehow the roli solution is attracting me atm. have to do another shootout :p

    my needs for voice distribution are: it must be playable like a guitar string with all retrigger nuances.
    making it MPE is not the problem... just do the ROLI-routing job (drop it into 8 instruments each, set midi channels different and merge all data).

    whats the best (non MPE) voice distribution macro for anybody so far? i`ll bet someone allready did this job 10 years ago and its sleeping in a lot of synths :p
    any recommendations?
     
  16. rulgert ghostalker

    rulgert ghostalker NI Product Owner

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    402
    keep me posted...your the go to guru on this subject it seems.

    i just started working on a new ScarDharma track, so i will be out of the discussion for about a week, but i share this same aspiration. ( vs editing glitches ), also.
    one lees problem as worries become more latency related, as i get into the thick of it, ( do i try to compensate, or somehow ignore the delay and shift the sequence in post?....neither one is easy, much less appealing, but i have to chose, Or "save as", thin, drop it in, copy , and paste...( thank the goshness for the third option.)......not that i don't do some takes in strait time, i do: and then entirely appreciate my quantize functions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  17. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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  18. colB

    colB NI Product Owner

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    3,021
    Thanks. It's was a long time ago, but I remember that there are some gnarly design decisions around this, and as I don't have any really fancy MIDI hardware to test with, I left it alone.
    The main issue is that With my Midi In block, you can hold any number of keys down in any order, and when you release a key that is playing, it then outputs the next key waiting... This depends on whatever priority algorithm is set. But it also means that you have to decide what to do with velocity:
    Do you store velocity and update it to the original velocity of the note that has been retriggered (could cause 'unexpected' changes in sound?!), or do you use the most recent, or some other approach. It's not obvious what is best, and probably depends on the situation. The same would go for note off velocity, and I can't even test that (no hardware device that sends note-off velocity) which makes it a no-go for sure as there are lots of possible bugs in such a complex processing task.
    EDIT: Maybe best is to use the note-off velocity as though it is the note-on velocity of the retriggered note - but like I said, I cant test that.
    I came up with a nice trick for detecting which voice the most recent note is playing on. That could be useful I suppose. I just use it so that I can view latest single voice on the scope when monitoring a polyphonic instrument.

    I guess the best thing for you to do would be to come up with a detailed specification requirement document of some sort... The problem with this sort of development is often working out the nitty gritty of the implementation - like the description I gave above about what to do with stored velocity data - it's the sort of thing you really don't even consider until you have to implement it.
    If you have some really specific custom requirements due to specialist hardware, you probably have to work it out yourself. when you have worked out all the subtleties of what the thing needs to do, then the implementation becomes easier as you are less likely to wast time with an approach that ultimately isn't going to work.
    The ROLI idea of using individual instrument to control MIDI channel is a good example. It should be possible to do this just with a channel message module, but IIRC, it doesn't handle MIDI channels properly (ironic really), so you just end up wondering why it doesn't work when it really should. That means that probably the only way is to go heavyweight with individual instruments...
    Anyhow, …you need to start with a list of technical requirements - essential ones and desirable non-essential ones. From there, you can start to think about how to realize it in Reaktor.
     
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  19. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

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    574
  20. Thala

    Thala NI Product Owner

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    574
    only a keyboard with velo and release velo is needed to test this on a monophonic synth.
    a mpe synth is acting like multiple (monophonic) parallel synths. each (midi)synthchannel can be polyphonic or monophonic, depends on the actual need.
    yes its on my to do list. it looks like you hit nearly what i need. but time is rare atm ;)
    hammering note (at least one note is held and a second is played) -> use velocity of last played note for retriggering
    pull off: one note is released, while at least one other note is played -> pick release velocity for retriggering
    this enables you to controll the tapping/hammering/pulloff guitar like playstyle.

    sounds superp! would you like to share this tool/macro?
    thanks for confirming that channel message thingy. the small reaktor things, that drives one crazy, if you need the detail...