S8 audio I/O?

No-one seems to be asking/wondering about the audio I/O aspect of this.
I've had 3 N/I audio interfaces and while they're functional sound-wise they're certainly not great. I briefly had a Vestax VCI400 and it was obvious on first listen it was head and shoulders better than the NI boxes. I've sold all the NI boxes now for an RME Babyface and while the S8 looks good knobs and buttons-wise I'm really hoping they haven't recycled the same old 'pristine, punchy, loud’, so-called ‘pro' bits from the other boxes because to my ears they could/should be better, esp. for that money.

 

I haven't really discussed this side of the S8 as I am pretty sure the quality will be on par with their other products such as the S4, Z2 etc, which to me is adequate but doesn't blow me out of the water. Unfortunately it will always be down to cost, and as they are packing a lot into this something has to give, I am just glad they have balanced out on this otherwise this would have been a no no.
You didn't say which products you have used? If it was something such as the S4, this doesn't have balanced outs, so the sound quality would not be as good as a product such as the VCI400 which does.

Remember you do not have to use the S8s built in sound card, you can always go for a superior one, and just use the controller aspect of the S8.

At the end of the day, if sound quality it your main priority you have to look at mixers such as Superstero, Condessa, Formula Sound, Rane, Bozak etc, but all these obviously command high prices and probably would not have the functionality that you require as these are only audio mixers.

 

new S8: 24bit/48 kHz vs. old S4: 24bit/96 kHz. Both by Cirrus Logic

 

Oh dear :/

 

Isn't the DDJ-SX2 24-bit/96kHz audio? At that spec, the Pioneer is starting to look more appealing.

 

Not only from this specific spec......

 

It's a shame these aren't dual-USB, that's a killer feature on the DDJ-SZ and having had it for a while switching back to a single USB would mean carry lots more gear again in case of a PC failure

Mike

 

When you say 'I haven't discussed' do you have some direct contact with NI?
When I compared with the VCI400 that was with an S4 at first then later at home through headphones and speakers against a Komplete 6 as well as another higher-end box. When I tested against the S4 the difference was so pronounced I went back and checked the settings in both instances of Traktor and they were identical. Also after testing against a few other boxes, even less high-end ones ie the Focusrite Scarlett series, there was an obvious difference, not in NI's favour. RCA vs XLR (un/balanced) connections will not make such a big difference in this case, this was simply down to 'acceptable consumer level' parts and conversion in the NI boxes. I very much doubt running out through XLR will fix that. Of course this is down to cost as you say, but things aren't looking good when the 'something has to give' is audio quality, esp. in their ~1300 Euro flagship box. I mix internally so those other mixers you mention are no use to me. Sound quality may not be a 'main' priority but in this level of box at this price it should certainly be near the top of the list don't you agree?
The future of djing is hopefully not more of the same average sound quality. If I dropped all that cash on this I'd feel a bit sore carrying a separate I/O around.....

 

To be fair anyone playing 24/96 files is in the near-infinitessimally small minority and as you know I'm sure numbers are just numbers > parts, design and actual conversion quality count for far more. If you're playing 16 bit/41k files it's pretty much here nor there just how high the spec goes up beyond that.

 

Wll, I can't remember ever putting my S4 on 24bit/96kHz.
And thats maybe the reason why NI didn't set up the S8 for that kind of "data".

Actually, why would you need more than 48k? And if you're going to do crazy stuff like 20 channels with 192kHz you allready own such an Interface, and probably won't use the S8 anyway, or use it as "just a controller"
I don't even use the 96kHz to record some records, erm, Vinyl.... soooo, not a BIIIIG problem.
Maybe I am ignorant, but I could live with that restriction. And IF I should record some Samples, I got my little Tascam DR08, which CAN work with 96kHz

BTW: back in 2003 I had an Interface, which could work even with 192kHz - never used it

 

Why would I need 64 Slots for remixing?
It is not about need - it´s about "flagship" attitude...
.. and the price.

 

more audio processing power, for starters it translates to lower latency.

 

Whoa, please, let's get some audio basics clear and not spread incorrect information.....(please forgive my capitals, I am simply trying to highlight some important facts)

48k does not give you 'more processing power', it is simply the sampling rate. It will have ZERO impact on latency.
Standard audio on commercial cds and 99.9% of commercially sold music is provided in 16-bit 44.1kHz. Higher bitrates and sampling rates are usually used in pro recording environments (and occasionally sample packs will come in these higher resolution formats but you may face compatability issues playing them back alongside 16-bit/44.1).

Some extremely limited amount of commercial music is sold in so-called 'audiophile' 24-bit format but this is still VERY rare.

Playing a regular 16-bit, 44.1k cd or digital file (flac, wav, aif, mp3 , any format) bought online through an audio interface that is capable of up to 24-bit, 48k, 96 k etc etc WILL IN ITSELF MAKE NO DIFFERENCE IN THE SOUND PLAYBACK QUALITY vs a 16-bit 44.1 capable box.

To all intents and purposes the stated '24-bit, 48k' spec shown with products such as the S8 is just blanket 'look at the big numbers, they must be better' marketing blurb but in reality in a usage situation where these devices are 99+% used purely for playback it will have zero, nothing, nada impact. If you're buying stuff from Beatport, Boomkat wherever as mp3, flac, wav, aif then 9,999 times in 10,000 you're buying 16-bit, 44.1k and no matter what you play them back on that will not change.

Yes, a track recorded, mixed, processed and exported in 24-bit/48k will POTENTIALLY sound 'better' ie closer to the original when played back on a compatible interface BUT at least as much as anything, it ALL HINGES ON THE QUALITY OF ELECTRONICS AND DESIGN OF THE CONVERSION. It is absolutely possible that a well-designed and built 16-bit/44.1k interface will sound noticeably better than a sub-standard 24-bit/128k spec'd piece of crap.

And that was basically where my thread came in really, numbers mean very little in the real world as this thread has shown in a way - everyone's throwing them around but with all respect few seem to know what they really mean and also how little they mean.

Better sound quality is something absolutely worth pursuing for ALL NI product users, and as NI have brought this fantastic looking, fantastically-priced box in 2014 I was hoping that there had also been some kind of meaningful improvement in actual 16-bit, 44.1k audio playback quality (which is absolutely possible), and not just numbers and this month's buzz-words, but so far it appears to be more of the same. That said, they may be using the same converters BUT have radically improved the associated parts and design in which case I will be delighted to eat a 24-bit/192kHz-sized piece of humble pie and be sure I will be there at the front of the queue to check with my own ears when I can.

 

Again: This is not the point. I do not need the 381 HP of my BMW at 99,99% in average use (mostly not even half of it) - but it is good to know they are there - and at least Audi and Mercedes do offer them as well on even cheaper conditions...

 

i am aware of what you say, @muthafunka.

but in traktor, switching to 96khz instantly shows a reduction in latency.

maybe the expression "more audio processing power" is a little bit misleading, i could agree to that.

i didn't mention quality in any case. of course if people plays "crappy youtube rips" switching to 96khz will do nothing. but you may agree that "better than cd standards" are becoming everyday more available.

 

Where are you switching to 96k in Traktor?

Even a pristine 24-bit, 48k master will not sound better played 'switching to 96k' versus it's native spec, never mind a crappy Youtube rip. Changing bit/sample rates can never improve beyond the original format spec.

I agree higher spec files are starting to appear but in terms of the S8 market that absolute number and reach is still near-zero. That said of course it's good that they can be played back if you do get any or want to play your own tracks etc. More than that actual practical application I still have the feeling a lot of users falsely believe that the higher spec will somehow make their standard spec files sound better.

 

preferences\audio setup\sample rate

...while downsampling, may worsen it.

 

There you have it, no reason to Play Stuff at 96kHz

Somebody mentioned the S8 may be slightly "quiter" (audio Output) than the S4?
Should be this a Problem, or just another PR thing?

 

Yes for sure the 'overall' figure is lower but I'm not sure how practically that affects playback once you're down around the lower end of the latency slider anyway unless you're a Scratch Pro/jogwheels user. It does also push 'load' up. Very happy to learn though if you have some info.

 

to my understanding (note that i'm not a scientist in the matter...) yes, the load increases at the audio processor, but it's something it is capable of doing.

i have another audio interface besides the one integrated in the S4, and that one reaches 192khz. so, while the S4 is working at "half load" at 48, the other is at "half load" at 96.

while it's somehow unnecessary to go below the 10-15 ms latency range, it's something i had observed, that the higher sample rate, the lower the latency is, of course at the expense of having the audio processor working at a higher pace.

in any case, i have them both set to 48 because i don't need less latency because the beatslicer goes nuts beyond that specification, and i want to be able to use it.

on a side note, i was not questioning whether it was a good decision or not, whether it should affect N% of users (knowingly, or not), and i wasn't questioning its hability to provide enough sound quality for most of the use cases out there.

it just seemed somehow odd that as more music is being published at higher than cd standards, this flagship mixer is going... slightly backwards. but at last, it may be a decision focusing in lowering the manufacturing cost of the unit more than any other fact.