S8 audio I/O?

Im def waiting If nothing happens gettin a DDJ-SZ

 

My opinion is to get DDJ-SZ(with dac by byrr brown) or to wait the new Pionner with screens!!!!!(the rumors says next summer). I said a lot of times that s2/s4 doesn't have good sound. I love traktor pro but the sound of traktor s2/s4 is very poor, so when i playing always fix the sound from the eq of mixer. Also i made a test last May between traktor s4 vs ddj-sx & the sound was much better than s4(check it here: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/s2-sound-issues.217607/#post-1271101) Question: is it possible to cancel the soundcard of s2/s4 & connect this: http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idac/ & use s2/s4 as simply controller?

 

first: you can use any asio/core compatible soundcard instead of the integrated of the s series in Traktor.

second: you can put a spdif Output to an series and use a external dac (for example a rme adi2 or similar). adding a spdif output is not expensive but you need to have some knowledge/skill about i2s/i2c conversion but it's not that hard to realize.

 

So i can use this :http://www.m2tech.biz/it/hiface2.html which has spdif?

 

no
the easiest way will be to use a better usb soundcard than the build in.

the "hard" way would be to add a spdif out route on the main assembly of the s-series and then use an external dac.

 

Instead of messing around with an SPDIF soundcard and then an RME ADI2 why not just get an RME Babyface, you get the quality RME converters, balanced master outs on XLR and headphone output to monitor with. This would be the intelligent way of getting better sound than the built in soundcard in the S8.

If you use one of the units linked above you lose your ability to monitor unless you mess around further with aggregating 2 soundcards, which then adds (ever so slightly) to your latency.

If you are concerned about the break-out cable of the Babyface, you can actually make your own with a DB15 connector and only solder up the I/O you need. For example, at home I have mine setup with only XLR input 1&2, and XLR output 1&2 with tails long enough to go to my monitors. I'm also thinking of making up another with only outputs 1, 2, 3 & 4 on RCA so I could take just that and an X1mk2 to gigs for quality sound and control into venues house mixer. All of the wiring for balanced and unbalanced options are outlined in the manual.

 

that's what i meant just take a Quality soundcard with proper dac and balanced analogue outputs

 

Just came to write something having looked at that M2tech box, looks nice BUT only 2 channels and also NOT on Mac OS 10.9.
Frankle, I'm going to PM you about the Babyface breakout cable!

 

I get it thanks a lot

 

I´d be pissed not amused after having bought a "flagship" controller which needs any additional soundcard to get a good sound....

 

Is not that NI has bad sound, it has decent sound, it´s just that it is not as good as the industry standards Pioneer or Allen & Heath, NI sound only bothers me when you are in a switching environment and others are sounding great from CDJs and you fall a little bit short from your NI soundcard, not that much but sometimes (quoting Breaking Bad´s Gale Boetticher) "it’s a tremendous gulf"

 

Well you just kinda said it Jorgelectro, "below standard". You're right, it's not bad but so far it's easily surpassed by plenty of other boxes, dedicated and all-in-one. I still have fingers crossed for the S8 btw, you never know.

Would be really interesting if we could somehow get some output samples from different boxes to do a shootout...bit of a project but possibly very worthwhile. Put them up somewhere unlabelled and let people download and listen for themselves.

If anyone has any chance to do that we should decide a few things beforehand ie track, recording process, levels, formats, normalizing to a predetermined level, etc etc. I'm happy to even try myself if I can rustle up some boxes and maybe even borrow an S8 as and when. Who knows, if there's a noticeable difference to enough people it might encourage NI to put some energy in that direction.

 

This should work, I basically tried it but I always mix internally so cannot guarantee, this should def. get you moving and give you an idea of TMix….it’s very easy really. Apols if it's not perfect but give it a try...I did my best.

Open Totalmix, before you do anything, in Snapshots section on the right click ‘store’, click Mix 1. Click on the word ‘Mix 1’ and rename it ‘default’ etc.

Next in each section of Totalmix make following adjustments:

1. hardware inputs (this section not 100% necessary to get Traktor working, just good practice)

AN1, AN2, AS1/2, ADAT3/4,-ADAT7/8
all faders -100% ie full down. Click on the lower channel numbers to reveal dropdown, select phones, AS, ADAT etc and set all channels down for each


2. software play (this is the important one)
AN1/2 up to zero ie unity. All others to -100% ie full down

click on dropdown at bottom of a channel and select PH3/4
set PH3/4 channel fader up to zero ie unity
set all other channels to full down

click on dropdown at bottom of a channel, select remaining options and set all faders (including 1-4) to full down.


3. hardware outputs
AN1/2 fader at zero ie unity

other channels can be anywhere ie up or down (as long as they’re not going anywhere doesn’t matter if they’re up)

4. control room
click on ‘assign’, main out set to 3/4, set fader to zero/unity
all others set to ‘none’

I have cue/PFL set to main

5. Finally in Snapshots section click ‘store’, click Mix 2. Click on the word ‘Mix 2’ and rename it ‘Traktor external’ etc. You can now switch back and forth between setups depending on what you’re doing just by clicking on the blue buttons.

 

Thanks mutha! This will be a good exercise to get around that neat little program. I got the sound separated already, but it may be better to have an alternative setup with one click.

And adding to the sound discussion: the difference between the Kontrol 6 and the Babyface is not really that big. It's subtle, RME is more detailed and pronounced in bass. If you're not a sound fanatic you can easily live with the Traktor Kontrol 6.
But the S4 is a downstep from that for my ears and not sufficient, at least for public performance. At home I am listening on top range monitors, so bashing of all Traktor Audio is not necessary. ;-)

 

My friend came in to our monthly night and played with his Pioneer DDJ SX and it sounded fat and loud; not hard on the ears, but loud in a good way, as in very present and low end friendly.
I personally use my Babyface as my soundcard of choice because it's super portable, and I like managing my ins and outs for live musicians on top of the mix with its Totalmix software (not very user friendly or intuitive at first, granted, but very powerful). I can't hear my own mix when I'm mixing -apart from the monitors and the resonance and reflections from the main room speakers, but my impression was that the Babyface sounded cleaner but less punchy and bass/mid friendly, and a bit sharper on the highs...as for the S4 etc. I'm guessing it's pretty much the same as the Audio 8 sound card, which is ok for sound systems; similar to the SX, it gives the impression of boosting the impression of loudness via the bass and mid frequencies. But I felt the Audio 8/ S4 was a step down from the Pioneer DDJ based on what I've heard of it from the past; not a fair test, mind you, since I didn't listen to them on the same system on the same night. It's a small club where we play so the sound system is only about 6000 watts (+ two monitors of about 500 watts each).

On a side note, I just found this...it looks like Cirrus Logic purchased the company that makes the Integrated Circuit/DAC for the Pioneer kit:

http://www.cirrus.com/en/company/releases/P655.html

From the Pioneer website: "The DDJ-SZ inherits high quality audio circuitry from Pioneer DJ’s pro-DJ equipment, including two built-in 24-bit sound cards, a precision engineered Wolfson DAC providing a signal-to-noise ratio of 111 dB on the Master Out to ensure incredibly pure sound reproduction"

 

Thanks for sharing...a walkthrough video would be amazing if ever you have the time. So much easier than reading

 

You know, what gets me about this sort of stuff when it comes up is that we've been doing this sort of thing for long enough that the fact there's any debate at all means there isn't a definitive listening quality difference when it comes to these specific specs.

If there was, it would be well documented. It would have been clear and obvious to the millions of professionals over time who use the things all the way down to the consumers who listen to the results. But that hasn't happened. In fact, the only definitive studies (which I conveniently cannot find at the moment) that I recall reading on the subject, featuring double blind listening tests, shows that just about no one can tell the difference.

A lot of the problems I think people associate with sample rates, bit depth, converters and the like are ones that are actually mixing problems. Either with you, with the guys before and after you, with FoS, with the system you're on, with the songs you're spinning.

Marketing professionals do a good job of pumping up the value of things like 192kbps and "audio engines". I'm most definitely not saying there isn't value. Because there is. Just not to the degree that playing something back at 96kbps is a universal requirement to have "good" sound vs 48.

And if you actually can tell the difference? Congratulations, you're a mutant.

Also, I recommend everyone watch this video:

 

I've been looking for official benchmark tests for DJ controllers' sound cards for a while now. If you can show me where they are please go ahead

 

And just out of curiosity, how many of you guys worrying about the DACs only play MP3s?

 

Without turning this into an argument (god knows there's already enough of those on the forums, here and elsewhere!), what I can say is: while you may have a point in your original post (or not), I think that while most of us are curious to find hard data to back up our perceptions and points of view, in the end we trust our ears (and by ears I don't just mean listening, but bodily perceptions as well). All I know is: one DJ played on his Hercules controller and it sounded fine. The next DJ played on a DDJ-SX and it sounded and felt noticeably more powerful. Was it a fair test? No, because although I'm fairly certain both were playing MP3's, we plug directly into the sound man's mixing board, so there's no way for me to confirm whether the eq and individual volume levels for each DJ were the same. But, he's a sound man, so I have good reason to believe their setting were probably the same. Of course, the sound card alone is not the only factor determining sound. Does one DJ controller sound better than the other? You bet it does, otherwise there wouldn't be a price difference.

I myself play lossless or Apple lossless whenever possible but have no problem throwing high bit rate MP3's into the mix. You're opening a whole can of worms just by mentioning that, as it's an argument that's been done to death here and elsewhere, and there's no reason to repeat it.

You're point of view is that the sound card / sample rates etc. have nothing to do with the discussion here. It's a forum and this is a discussion...we're talking, debating, learning as we speak, and you're input is most welcome; but that doesn't mean you have the answer and that therefore the discussion will just suddenly stop because you think you have the answer (!) And while I don't buy into the sample rate thing too much (above 41.1 Khz), the sound card quality is important for me, so knowing the specs is also important. If it's not for you, cool. Let's just agree to disagree and move on with it