Sampling in Kontakt 3 Please!

Why not introduce real sampling in Kontakt 3?

Make it happen and it will beat every other softsampleplayer out there!

It cant be to hard to do it?

NI! come on PLEASE!

 

What would be the point? There are so many other programs out there that are full-featured audio editors and can do it much better and faster...I wouldn't want Kontakt's developers wasting their time going back to reinvent what hundreds of other programs already do...

Kontakt already has drag and drop -- what's wrong with using your favorite audio editor or sequencer to do the recording?

 

I understand and even agree with some of your points to an extent David. But by the same token, what's wrong with having a sampler app that can actually sample?

Using your logic - why bother having sample edit functionality in K3 when it can't sample in the first place? it's just strangely inconsistent. Almost illogical.

Reaktor, Absynth and Guitar Rig can all sample/record internally - and I find it humorously ironic for NI's premiere sampling product to be missing this functionality.

Of course, the absence of sampling capabilities wasn't a deal breaker for me either . . .

I say better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

 

Well, Kontakt is not a sampler application. It is a sample player application. The core of what Kontakt does is play samples. Having the sample edit functions is not illogical. Because Kontakt plays samples. You want to edit the samples you are going to play. I really do not think it is illogical that they do not provide internal recording possibilities.

Personally, I will stick to the audio editors for that and keep using Kontakt as a sample player (its original intention). So I am pretty much in David's court on this one:

 

Well, which one of us should be the one to tell NI about this? Because they've never ever referred to Kontakt as anything but a samplER - I've NEVER seen any promo, ads or literature describe Kontakt as a mere sample player.

I'm just throwing this out there for the sake of discussion - and of course you are right. In it's current incarnation, Kontakt 3 is a very well endowed sample player. But it's always been billed as a samplER, without any qualification.

You guys make it sound like the world would stop spinning if NI spent one second of their time implementing true sampling functionality into their samplER and that's simply ridiculous. Reaktor already has a tape deck, so does Absynth and Guitar Rig. I'm no programmer - but if those non-sampler apps can record, why can't Kontakt? Sure - I know how to use the bounce function in my DAW but why not be able to do the same thing in standalone with K3? You're not obliged to use it if you don't want to.

I'm not asking NI to build Peak into K3 either - just a record button and a stop button. Is that really so awful? Jeeez.

 

Lol you made me pull up a search!

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum_us/showthread.php?t=53397&highlight=sampler

Ni Moderator stating my above point. But you are absolutely right, they advertise it as a sampler, when indeed it is not. I guess with time the definition of sampler has changed due to misuse. I might just sell my 10-speed and call it a motorcycle.

I hear you knight, the real issue I have with that is that taking the time to introduce those new features is time away from making their product stable and improving on the features that matter to me.

Had to reply because I really would rather have some other features over this and I want Ni to know that, but I am sure there is a good deal of people who want the exact feature you describe.

Cheers.

 

I really have to disagree strongly here. Kontakt is built for something entirely different. Sure, they could add a record and a stop button...and then get pummeled by critics saying, "Kontakt only does recording while Peak does a million other things." Because once they add a recording button, how many other things would it be "nice" if they added?

Kontakt is a thousand times more powerful than just sampling a single sound. How many pieces of freeware can simply record a sound? Just download one and use it. If the extent of your Kontakt usage is just sampling a single sound, you'd get as much work done with an MPC.

Most people already use Kontakt within a sequencer that is so much more powerful for recording purposes. Recording something into a sequencer and importing it into Kontakt takes only seconds. Why the insistence that Kontakt do it natively (and for sure not as well)?

My last point is that Kontakt is not really intended for simple single-shot sampling. It's an incredibly powerful sampler (OK, sample player, if you really must quibble over semantics) that is built to organize thousands of samples at the same time, organize them into groups with different characteristics, employ complicated KSP algorithms that govern their behavior, add FX, and so on.

That it doesn't natively sample has not bothered me for one moment in the several years that I've used Kontakt.

Your mileage may vary.

I think it's somewhat analogous to trying to use a massive sledgehammer to hammer tiny nails into your wall to hang pictures. Yes, you can do it, but really, a cheap dime store hammer can hang your pictures -- you buy the sledgehammer for much bigger jobs.

OK, one final point. I personally would not want Kontakt's programmers wasting one moment of time replicating functions found in the most elementary freeware sound recording programs. I'd rather they extend Kontakt in new power directions.

 

Yeah - I remember that thread. You can tell by my comments it was a bit of a revelation for me to finally realize - "Hey - this app doesn't really sample, does it?" I got a laugh out of that one.

And yes, now-a-days we throw the term 'sampler' around as if it were an all encompassing term for dealing with the manipulation and playback of digital audio - but it used to prominently include the RECORDING of audio in practice as well. Somehow the necessity of latter has vanished.

Comparing K3 and Peak is really not appropriate at all. Very much an apples and oranges thing there. Peak is not a sampler. It's never been described or marketed as such either. Sure, it can record, but Peak is really a dedicated 2 track audio editor. On it's surface, it's just like the freeware recorders out there, except Peak costs $500 to $600. Where Peak differs, and pays for itself in one day (at least IMHO) is in it's audio batch processing capabilities. Among many, many other things.

I suppose adding a simple record and stop button to Kontakt 3 might have the potential to open a pandoras box of new feature requests - but doesn't adding sample edit capabilities to K3 potentially do the same thing? Kontakt is far more vulnerable to unfavorable comparasons to an app like Peak in this regard - because audio editing is a big part of what Peak is about. Much more so than sampling or recording. The addition of sample editing in K3 IS a very good thing even though any DAW or dedicated pro audio editor does this kind of thing much better.

In the end - I have a hard time seeing the addition of a basic recorder to Kontakt 3 being a bad thing. It's not a complicated thing. All it requires is an input selection, a record button and a stop button. This is all I'm talking about. It's not 'quibbling over semantics' - it's always been a typical and normal function of a true sampler to be able to record audio. Kontakt 3 already has everything else covered and then some - why not add this one simple thing? The one thing that would actually make it become a full-on, true sampler? It's not going to be the end of the world if NI does this. And I do not see this being any more an invitation for new, unusual feature requests than the already implemented sample editing features that K3 brings to the table.

Make recording something that K3 can do in standalone. For the very same reasons all the other NI apps have recorder boxes. It's a fundamental utility that adds functionality and convenience. Which is precisely why it's included on several other NI products in the first place.

You guys make me feel like I've asked NI to put a built in shiatsu back massager into K3. I just think it would be cool if this sampler could sample. That's all. Come on - you know I'm right. And so do I.

 

the definition of sampler in software world is different than hardware, that's for sure. i think most people consider soft-samplers nowadays as non-sampling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampler_(musical_instrument)#Software-based_samplers

point being, don't expect NI to fullfill your wish by going the "but you CALL it sampler therefore you must add sampling" route

i'd rather petition for audio input and fun stuff to do with that; sidechaining, audio mod, fx routing, sampling, resampling being a possible consequence of that

 

99.9% of all Kontakt users are using it with a DAW that can sample/record.

 

So are a significant number of Absynth and Reaktor users. Same with Guitar Rig. Funny that these apps can sample/record in standalone but Kontakt can't. Forgive my heresy - but real samplers should also be able to record.

 

The examples you give /Abs/Rea/GtRig are all capturing audio at the output stage. you are asking for capturing audio at the input stage.

I'm not AGAINST a recording function in Kontakt, could be nice for creative use.

But i'm a bit puzzled at your determination to stay in the 90ies and spend energy propagating technology to suit your expectations instead of finding technology that already does it.

Kontakt 3 + Autosampler + host GUI on OSX = way better than the hardware sampler paradigm of the 90ies

 

LOL - what was so bad about the 90's - except that there was no Reaktor, Kontakt, Redmatica etc? I hear you, but in fairness, Reaktor CAN record/sample audio introduced at it's input stage in many ensembles. Same thing with Guitar Rig. So it still begs the question: Why doesn't Kontakt (the samplER) do this too?

I'd be okay with K3 being able to record at the output stage, as long as it had a working input section. It just might be enough to send me back to sonik hybernation, and stop me from asking for perfectly logical feature requests samplers should have. Again, I'm talking about standalone situations here.

EXS24 is built into a wonderful app that does a magnificent job of sampling and editing audio. Kontakt couldn't sample or edit audio when it was launched. Evidently NI has seen the logic of adding audio editing in K3. I say why not go all the way and put sampling into this bugger too? Why bother to add audio editing if there are soooo many apps out there (like any DAW that can run Kontakt) that already do this soooo much better? Because it makes sense to be able to edit audio in a sampler? Well there you go - same logic says sampling makes sense in a sampler too.

And for the record, as is, I don't consider Kontakt 3 broken or severely lacking in any way. Kontakt IS my go to sample(player) these days. Sampling would make it even better. Though clearly, some would disagree.

 

i think if you introduce an audio input in K3 , it would really help people to take it on the road.
musicians like victor wooten ,sivamani etc. for whom phrase sampling is integral to their music and performance.

i don't see why it should not be there.

Kontakt will immediately appeal the live users and performers

i can think of things like phrase sampling(as above mentioned)
2.live vocoding.(thru the tone machine)
3.using kontakt as an insert effect to manipulate incoming audio with the script recorders, filters and the massive osciallator possibilaties which kontakt already offers.


if you look at it the sampler module (apart from time, tone , beat and dfd module) is rarely used. this would be a good time to bring it back in action.!

of course these just don't indicate mere audio input ability , but also on the fly looping punch in and out facilites etc.

and all these new features could sit pretty on the kontrol window on top where u have the metronome etc.

 

I agree that a "sample in" function would be priceless. Ive gotten used to the idea that software samplers dont sample, but that doesnt mean its not needed. It comes down to what you use kontakt for. I personally use it more for sampling loops(from records, not libraries) and it would be great to not have to have another app open to record my samples into. Its just another step I have to take and it would be nice to have it built in. As far as using Kontakt as only a "sample player" is ridiculous to me. Why not just use "Kontakt Player" or Kompakt that so many of the third party programs have used. I have Kontakt for its editing capibilites, not its playing cabilities. I doubt the developers look at Kontakt 3 only as a player, theyve put too many sample editing features in there to label it a mere player. Anyway, my vote goes to putting a true "sampling" function in there.

And to the devolopers, the slice function needs ALOT of work. Its too tempting to have such a great concept in theory, but not have it executed properly. I have never, with any version of kontakt, had soooooo many crashes and inconsistent/buggy behavior. But I guess this isnt the thread to post to for that.

 

LOL at the mod trying to cherry pick the definition of a sampler...For crying out loud, we all know what a sampler entails and what they do...Input recording, sample editing and midi functionality, etc. If you, David Das, a forum mod, want to deter or discourage us CONSUMERS from petitioning NI to add an important feature to a product we own, you're way out of line..By David's logic we shouldn't need IR reverbs in Kontakt because there are loads of fx units that already do this. Right?

Look, NI and people like David Das might have interest in keeping kontakt a "sampler player" because they sell sample libraries and so do countless companies. Why bother implementing a sample input function when we can buy their sample libraries? Now don't think it's all a massive conspiracy from me, it's just the bottom line.

Has anyone here ever TRIED to make their own sampled instrument in a DAW? It's a time consuming job with no intricate sampling functions...Why not give consumers the ability to sample in, automatic note sampling with mapping and velocity, etc? Why not give us the power to create our own sample libraries with the hardware instruments we might already own? Yes, there are other products out there that can do complicated auto sampling, but they cost money and would lack integration with Kontakt.

Take a look at EMUX2, get a clue NI.

One vote here for input sampling.

 

hello guner. . David is one of the foremost people who are outhere to constructively help out people using Kontakt. as per his view i completely respect it and i also see his POV.

I have seen NI lookin into thier users demand very often and i feel at some point of time they will incorporate this feature.
david has full right to his opinion. and so do u but it sounds awfully rude , eventhough i don't and am not voicing out for DD. its my opinion that please refrain from personal attacks and keep the discussion healthy

 

Personal attack? Where? I think my concerns and POV are legitimate. I think Das is the rude one by being so dismissive and belittling of this suggested request on this REQUEST FORUM.

 

Well, it's a bit irritating that you can buy standalone products like Mimik ... or get products like EmulatorX2 ....which have the ability to "auto sample" or "SynthSwipe" ... but N.I.s "premier" sampler application can't sample.

I'm on a mission to simplify my setup this year and in '08 ... trashing dozens of overlapping applications and VSTs. Komplete is key to that effort, and covers so many bases ... just this one big fat glaring empty hole.

 

+1
it can be simplified , its all upto NI