Sampling in Kontakt 3 Please!

...no, I'm not bored. I have just provided some arguments for this discussion that offer a slightly different view (that's what forums are about) and that others have already voiced in this thread, too. Apart from what I have said I have nothing more to say and, from what I can tell, so do you - see:

...no offence, have a nice Sunday ...

 

Yes but everything in these forums don't always have to be a debate or argument. The creator of this thread wrote "Sampling in Kontakt 3 Please" and a few others agree and responded. This wasn't a thread that headline "Do you want or not want sampling?" But this is what it has turned out to be. You have a thread "Kore Browser & Battery .cel import. " These are features you want. If forum members wrote that your idea was stupid and that there should be other priorities, I would quickly respond that this is a feature request thread not debate.

It's obvious that several of us want actual sampling and have not changed our positions. Let's us drink and be merry

 

...nothing against that.



...but what do you think about a Kore browser and Battery Cell import actually?

 

That's good to know - I'd heard here and elsewhere that the Emu was hardware dependent and PC only. Is this dongle system a recent change?

+1

 

+1 for recording, not so much the record any audio passing through but I would like to sample vst's like the Directwave sampler does.

C

 

I gotta add my 2 cents cause I felt cheated.

I come from the days of using mpc's and asr's for your sampling purposes where you have hardware dedicated samplers that do everything a sampler is supposed to do...including sampling inputs directly.

Being in the market for a software sampler, I've been testing Kontakt 3 at a professional studio down the street where I also do some light engineering work.....and I SPENT 2 DAYS TRYING TO SAMPLE WITH KONTAK 3 DIRECTLY !

I'm sorry to say...but if you call yourself a sampler as is advertised, you should be able to directly sample. Leaving that up to other applications lengthens and inhibits the work flow when it comes to making music.

You should be able to driectly sample, edit, map, and play. Instead....now you have to add more steps with outside apps.

Don't get me wrong, the script editor, effects, modulation possibilities and everything else on K3 is all that I've been asking for ...for the last few years...but come on! No direct sampling? It took me a few days just to get over this alone.

I dont know what background you guys come from....the people on here that are cool with k3 not sampling directly....but if you come from the old school where samplers did everything (and if they didn't you figured out a way to hack the box so it would)...it's basically blasphemy for a sampler not to directly sample.

 

samplesbank I know where you're coming from. I suspect I'm in the same vein as you (I do hiphop/electronic) and I never touch sample libraries. 90% of the sounds in my music are found samples I put a lot of work into finding and mangling/engineering. I do get a bit annoyed when I see people who are clearly library users saying 'NO PLEASE DON'T ADD SAMPLING TO KONTAKT'. I think that's pretty selfish, if a feature is there, doesn't mean you have to use it. But for those of us who'd like the option, it would make a big difference.

My philosophy (now that I don't expect to see a 'sampling' soft sampler - it's been years now people have been requesting this....) is to view the computer itself as the sampler. Back in the day with the Akais, Yamahas, Ensoniqs your entire sampler box was a rack or keyboard with some basic recording and editing functions and basic instrument creation options, with a few effects. I think if you look at a computer as that device, rather than the individual sample engine application as the equivalent, you will be more settled with Kontakt.

I'm now dedicating an entire Core2 machine to Kontakt3 which runs standalone, not VST, so I have the multiple windows open (yeah would be nice if they stayed in the same place and didn't have arbitrary fixed bitmap sizes - thanks NI ) but it runs good standalone and I keep Wavelab open permanently alongside Kontakt. For me this makes it feel like an immensely powerful 'appliance' like an old hardware sampler on steroids. Standalone also makes it far easier to deal with using multiple instruments side by side via different midi channels since most DAWs have a terrible implementation of multichannel/multiinstrument VSTi. I just wish the standalone Kontakt could host external plugins.

 

Firstly it is not just "library users" who do not want sampling in Kontakt.

Secondly, it is not that people just do not want it sampling for the sake of not having. People, like myself, would rather NI spend their time and effort in other areas of the software before investing it into research development and implementation of sampling capabilities.

So how is that anymore selfish than you wanting what you want? If they put the time into that, it might take away from a feature I want.

 

I think most users of Kontakt would prefer NI to spend their time getting the bugs out before adding new features, but of course it's new features that draw in new sales, existing users are already 'in' so fixing problems comes second always. With regards to adding sampling capabilities I hardly think it would draw away a whole development team, recording audio is something 95% of audio apps have been doing since the mid 1990s, even Reaktor can do it (isn't that ironic).

Personally I'm happy to see any feature added to Kontakt as long as a) the features come after the bug fixes b) the new features aren't forced upon you and can be ignored or switched off c) the new features don't turn the app into a 300mb-per-instance Photoshoplike behemoth that takes ages to boot up (oh wait Kontakt3 is already heading that way!)

Quoid I do see your point about not overlapping features that can be filled in by other software, I'm getting by myself with the Wavelab method. I guess if people want an MPC they should buy an MPC (though I never found the editing&recording in hardware samplers any good in the first place)

 

postscript: I guess if NI were busy adding recording to Kontakt instead of the convolution reverb I'd miss the hell out of the ability to save unique 'spaces' directly into the instrument as I do now, so I see your point there. In an ideal world the K3 development team would be 100 strong and we'd get all the features we want, in one week, without bugs.....

[dreams /off]

 

The reasoning behind WHY those who oppose having sampling is ignorant and flawed. It's always about the precious time you fabulous progressive users will loose in getting your next new groovy feature - you know, the one that you didn't even know you needed. The one that adds 18 more months of bug fixes for all of us. Thanks for watching out for the rest of us.

This ongoing, lame excuse the nay sayers are floating for not implementing sampling is laughable. Do you really think NI will require days, weeks, months, or years of R & D to implement an input section and a recorder into Kontakt? You're kidding right? They could perform this incredibly complex feat of miraculous rocket science in no time. Probably in just a few days if that.

And the idea that the time spent doing this will somehow rob the uber-progressive needs of users seeking new, undiscovered, yet to be imagined features - while there's clearly a current desire, and legitimate need by many users to be able to sample is nothing short of ridiculous. You (the collective nay sayers) really ARE selfish and incredibly arrogant. To assume that you know what's best for other users who have needs that aren't exactly the same as yours is nothing short of amusing. And of course completely arrogant.

So if it will ease your concerns, think of it this way - NONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WANT SAMPLING ARE SAYING, "STOP WORKING ON ALL THESE OTHER COOL IMPROVEMENTS FOR K3" - they're also not saying "HEY FORGET ABOUT WORKING ON BUG FIXES AND IMPLEMENT SAMPLING IMMEDIATELY!" We're just saying hey - we could really use this, and here's how it would help us. The only ones who are saying to NOT DO something are the nay sayers. Who have yet to offer up a single valid reason for their lingering fobia of adding sampling. It's something I'm sure you'll be able to ignore if you don't need it. All this fussing over it is astounding.

How much deeper can you dig your ditch? You're as wrong as you can be about this.

 

seconded

 

Applying Keymap style sample editing in Kontakt?

Hi,

does anyone out there have a script that might help this situation:

I have created my own samples and made an instrument in Kontakt out of them. However, I have realized my fade out time is too short and I would quickly like to change the fade in/out times.

If anyone is familiar with Keymap by Redmatica, it is a sample editor for EXS instruments and you can quickly change the fade times and more without having to re-consolidate all the fades of the samples in Pro Tools and re-export them with the correct fade time.

your help is appreciated
cheers

 

Are you talking about the fades being hard coded to the wave files? If it's just the fades within Kontakt then surely an 'edit all groups' edit could be done in seconds to the amplitude envelope.

 

The least NI can do here is to stop calling Kontakt a sampler as it quite clearly is not. It is merely a sample player.

Has anyone considered bringing a Misrepresentation law-suit against NI?

 

this is what baffles me all the time...

its not like they need to invent new technology for this.
they have reaktor which does this already ...

i request NI to seriously implement this.. i had cited my reason and benefits of a feature like this.
also this will be a big edge over other sample players too.

 

I too think it preposterous that Kontakt 3 does not sample or have a way to insert plug-ins without having to use outside apps.

It should be a must to have direct sampling and vst plug-in effects modulation.

 

Come on - a "Misrepresentation Lawsuit?" To what end? How exactly has NI's use of the term 'sampler' caused anyone any damage or unnecessary suffering? I can see where it might potentially lead to confusion for some consumers. But for my part, this is just about a simple, logical, and reasonable feature request.

As far as wanting to be able to run other plugins inside Kontakt - this is where I start to agree with Dave Das. Kontakt really should be able to sample because this is a FUNDAMENTAL thing that samplers should do. But Kontakt already has a number of built in fx and filtering options which admittedly may not be the most high end available compared to some plugins - but what's there is still quite formidable, and better than anything you'll find in any other software based sample player. So, while I don't hate this idea, I think baby steps are a better idea for now. And the first logical baby step is to just get basic record capabilities happening in standalone. My 2 bits.

 

Well it doesn't sample does it so it quite clearly is NOT a sampler.
I wonder how many have bought the product believing to actually do what it says on the tin when in reality it does not?

 

Well to my way of thinking - I'd agree Twigman. We sort of went back and forth over the classic definition of what 'sampling' really means earlier in this thread.

I think I was told I was still clinging to the '90's or something for my allegedly 'dated' definition of sampler. I'm practically a heretic it seems.

You raise a good question, but I have a feeling in cases where someone actually bought Kontakt thinking they could sample with it - NI probably had to give them a full refund. As I said - there certainly is a potential for confusion. In reality I don't see any.

I tend to think of most computer based musicians as fairly savvy and cutting edge oriented when it comes to music technology. I have a hard time seeing one of these types make this kind of error in a purchase decision such as this. And it's an even farther stretch for a retailer to allow a customer to make this mistake as well.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this kind of lawsuit.

Just like I'm not holding my breath waiting for NI to put sampling into K4. lol