should we discuss software protection here?

There was a partial discussion about this in the R5 wishlist and I wonder...

Obviously there are 2 opposing opinions:

1) why should I care? It's all about creativity and it's tight-assed to worry about this kind of things

2) it pisses me off that I spend a month's salary on a piece of software and my collegue calls me an asshole because he got it for free from limewire - latest version (not more than 1 week after every update) which even generates authorization codes a-go-go.

I believe we as users should be interested - after all Emagic was obliged to sell to Apple because there was a dongle emulator out there for over 2 years that made them lose sales (wasn't it this way?)

SO why not contribute ideas as to WHAT to do as a protection...
- re-authorize regularly with original CD (VERY dangerous during life gigs)?
- smartly hidden authorization file on CD? FCP does that and the hidden file on the CD can't be copied. As a consequence, the cracked versions of FCP don't (really)work
- what about individually assigned codes (that are not a result of an algorhithm) by e-mail? Is it possible to crypt / hide that authorization file so well that it can't be copied?
- Max/MSP seems to be well protected - there are only very few cracks out there and I doubt if they work
- One thing with original CDs - edirol has these CDs with 2 partitions physically separate by some blank space on the CD (AND it requires re-authorization after every change of the system folder). Doesn't that work quite well?

Just some thoughts from pirate's paradise China...

Jurgen

 

Max/MSP also uses PACE. While I'm sure that PACE has improved
since my last debacle with it, my nightmares from earlier versions are still fresh in my head.
ew

 

no

 

I don't think software piracy as harmful to the industry as it's made out to be, TBH. I certainly don't think Emagic folded cos of cracks...

I don't think software piracy's morally acceptable either, naturally, but for most of my mates who fiddle around with FruityLoops, it's not a question of stealing it or buying it, it's a question of stealing it or doing something else with their afternoons.

-paws

 

Ugh. I'm considering M/M as a complement to Reaktor, but the dongle requirement really stings. Maybe I'll try to get Pd or Supercollider working instead. Seriously, I wouldn't be thinking twice about getting M/M if it weren't for the dongle.

 

dont think it uses a dongle...pace is an online challenge response system, no? (i was using the demo of max/msp and all i had to do to own it was but the authorization code, no dongle) i could be wrong of course...also, while on the subject, i think the fact that the user library cant be accessed w/o registration definantly detracts from the usability of a cracked reaktor (not to mention even the factory library must be dl-ed seperatly from the crack). ill admit, when i first started using computers for music after selling most of my hardware, i dl-ed a bunch of cracks, but i felt wrong using them after a while and bought all my software (over a long period of time), but i dont think everyone out there has my same sensibilities.

 

Not this **** again..

:doh:

 

Oh really? That's good news. I haven't really looked into this very hard. I did work with the demo for 30 days, but never checked out the authorization method. I have no problem with challenge/response. PACE does support the iLok dongle, though.

 

No problems with copy protection here. Pirated software does not harm software producers and publishers but half witted protection schemes do. I'll be damned if i spend 900USD on a plugin or bundle or program, have my dongle break and be SOL. I also refuse to pay to be a glorified beta tester. So if companies get it right more often, then I will buy more often. I have had enough with "if you don't like how it works or it doesn't work well, then buy 3.x for 150USD more and it is fixed." We as paying customers deserve better than to call tech support to hear that the feature that caused us to buy will be fixed in future releases. If companies were to limit the aforementioned experiences by paying customers then the market for pirated software would shrivel to the users who would never have purchased anyway as I believe most users have some semblance of morals.

 

Totally agree. They are two types of user's, people who will buy and people who won't. As long as copy protection doesn't detract the people who will buy then it's ok. Unfortunately most of the time it does. As a person who will buy software I demand that it not use more software that protects it (pace) and not use hardware that protects it (dongle). Neither of those make life easier this is why Native Instruments should be commended for having a decent copy protection (easy on the buyer). Recently I was very excited about the new Arturia Prophet V until I found out it was protected by a dongle. Right then I turned from buyer to buying something else! So does copy protection like dongles really get people to buy their software? In my case no, it is the exact opposite.

 

this REALLY ticks me off. and amuses me at the same time. did you guys know that people are selling the reaktor user library stuff?

http://www.softasfiles.com/index.php?target=desc&progid=5125

obviously the market is only for people who use cracked versions. it's especially ridiculous since a lot of this stuff is even available completely for free on personal websites.

so they're selling to people who are dishonest enough to steal software, but too stupid to figure out how to get stuff that's truly free. which is funny.

 

yes, thats pretty crappy i must say, more to NI than anyone else (although jopy, you have to admit its a bit flattering seeing our stuff in that list of great new ensembles, isnt it?).

i feel that i SHOULD be mad at someone making money on all of the ensembles posted for free by the original uploaders (myself included), but i honestly dont care enough to start something about it, for 2 reasons: 1), im a self-promoting bastard, and i like getting my name out, especially since some users of that collection may very well buy the program eventually, and 2) i cant see it doing that well. i could be wrong there, though. as ive admitted before, the first time i tried Reaktor was as a crack. im not super proud of it, but as soon as i realized how much i loved it i decided to buy it as soon as i had the cash, which i did. im probably niave, but i feel that there are other users out there that will go down this same route. it just seems thatg Reaktor is one of those programs that really benfits from actually owning it, beyond just for feeling good about yourself, since it has an excellent user community and online library.

regardless, id like to hear what others have to say about this (and thanks for showing us this, jopy).

EDIT - ok, i realized this was really just all the ensembles put out in sept 05, not the best of. oh well. i have to say that im a bit more pissed after reading more of the site - not only are they charging 70$ for the CD version of this, but they are actually selling all kinds of cracked software - its one thing to pass these around, which is still very uncool, but actually selling them is just wrong!

 

from what i understand, NI's standpoint on piracy is that rather than penalize paying users with difficult software protection, they would rather give them bonuses to encourage them to buy (user library, our discussion forums etc) i think about the only software protection they need is probably the latest secure rom on their discs so that if copied, the images or burnt discs will not function.

 

It's hard to imagine anyone is actually buying something there. I wouldn't even think about submitting my CC details.

 

i drop the dime for all the gear i use cuz i need it to work. i've heard people talk about only using cracked gear and a night before a gig having their system or program break down and stop working. now there are always work arounds to get all your cracked gear to work, but i want to really make music. if you are commited you'll pay for it. and not waste time trying to get half ass gear to work.

 

yah, i agree, plus i think financially supporting companies is the only way to get them to release more stuff. as cool as the whole free/open-source software idea is, not everyone is down with that. i think if i had to move on to linux machines, i could possibbly just use pd and be somewhat happy, but for now im very glad i have my slick pretty Reaktor, however superficial a reason to choose Reaktor that is.

 

there are those who create and there are those who rip. i admit i used ripped software in the past but i realized i'm better off supporting a company that is reliable and keeps innovating without disappointing their community of buyers.

 

for me, as i can afford it, i buy all my software. my next big purchases will be ni komplete 3 and kore

 

I've paid for all of my NI software, but I don't mind admitting, that I bought cubase, had my dongle break, so now I use the warez. I do not feel any moral obligation to buy another dongle from Steinberg, just so I can use my software I've already purchased, and I applaud NI on their copy protection, especially ever since they straightened out the whole authorize/un-authorize/re-authorize scheme about 2 years ago.

 

yah, jay, i dont blame you there. the only problem i can see is upgrading it, but maybe you arnt planning on that anyways? i used to like the idea of a dongle awhile back, so i can have multiple installs (>2), but now the idea just seems appaling, as my USB ports/hub are already pretty damn full (i need more firewire stuff just to split up the workload better).