Simultaneous Pad hits have wrong velocity?

Sensitive pads are good for pad preservation at least. It's probably keeps the user from pounding the hell out of it. It's all about adjusting how hard you hit the pads. I like this because I used to pound the hell out of those MPC pads. I had a 2000 xl that had to be fixed.

 

I am definitely seeing a strong difference in sensitivity between regular maschine mode and midi mode. With all notes fixed at max velocity, I can lightly tap the pads to play a chromatic scale. This generates a smooth legato like flow between notes. In midi mode, the same amount of pressure triggers fewer notes and I have to tap each pad somewhat harder to trigger it. This results in a choppy flow between notes. Looking at the monitor page in midi mode, I can see that if I tap two pads one after the other, the polypressure values are picked up from first and then the second pad. However, the note on the second pad itself is not triggered until I push the pad harder. Also, is it just me or isn’t it possible to change pad sensitivity in midi mode on the MK3? I don’t recall shift+settings permitting this either.

 

Hi all,

Thanks for providing all the information in this thread. We are actively investigating the reports of inconsistencies in pad behavior you have shared here. So far, we have not been able to reproduce the issue with velocity differences of around or more than 10 steps, as reported by the OP and some others.

Having said that, it is indeed true that there is crosstalk prevention built into the pad integration of MK3, but this is actually also true for all other Maschines going back all the way to MK1, including Studio. Preventing crosstalk between pads is required for any pad-based instrument. We are currently investigating the exact effects this crosstalk prevention has in different environments. What we are seeing is that the sturdiness of the table or other kind of surface on which you place Maschine has a significant effect, but this is not unique to MK3. On the software side, we are trying to maximize the dynamic range of the pads, and we see that with a high dynamic range, crosstalk prevention might result in slightly different values when hitting two pads simultaneously. These differences stay within a range of 2-4 steps of velocity, though (same as on the older Maschines we tested so far).

We will keep you posted as we find out more.

All the best,
Florian

 

In Controller Editor -> Preferences, you can set the Sensitivity parameter for MIDI mode.

 

Glide/ strum, light touch. For me this lack of sensitivity and note triggering at the center of the pad was the deal breaker.

On the MIDI, its not the registered sensitivity, but the actual note trigger. If you monitor the pressure level, below a certain point it does not trigger a sound. It registers the touch but no sound, however at the same level in Maschine-mod this would. Have a play, but think light/feather touch not Rocky. BTW, have a quick google and you will find a few threads with this, but no real solution.

 

Thank you for your response, Florian. I think the others who tested this in the forum have come to a slightly different result, however.

The fact that two pads can not register maximum velocity at once is not something I've seen in previous Maschines. At least definitely not on my MK1. The table doesn't matter, and it is not a problem I've seen on any other pad based instruments, including the office MPC (yes! there is one!) or other pad based MIDI controllers like my old Trigger Finger.

So something just went wrong here. These things happen for any new device. It's understandable. Good luck finding the issue, and keep us posted on what happens. Meanwhile, I'll keep testing other devices and bumping this thread as I do.

 

Thanks for the reply @Florian, that’s what I have been doing so far. I was just curious if I was missing something or the functionality to modify these settings via the hardware was no longer possible as it was on the MK2.

 

Check the video soft3 might be your answer

 

No offense at all... but that's inaccurate and a bit confusing.... "it's registering but it's not hitting" !? At the first few touches, the pads get selected and therefor register...

 

Have you tried changing the Polyphony to 1?

 

So has anyone tried to replicate this test on a MK2 or Studio. Would be good to get a point of reference to see if this is typical behavior or new for the MK3.

 

Test what? The simultaneous hit thing? It happens on the Studio too, it's not an MK3 thing after all... just like Florian said. One of the pads never reaches full velocity but its a difference of about 117 to 127... negligible to me, the minimum force required to trigger the pads seem like a much bigger concern for me, but i guess that would be off topic and subjective.
I can upload a video if you guys want but I don't think there's much point... I pounded the pads super extra hard.

 

But for me it happens on studio too

 

Yes, thank you. That's what I wanted to clarify. By reading the thread one would get the impression this is new and exclusive to the MK3 when the fact is that MK2 and Studio behave the same. And not saying this was anyone's intention. I went ahead and edited the thread title for clarity.

 

To be clear this is new behavior on the mk3. I became aware of it the first time I loaded one of the kits that I have played a lot in our band. Generally I was previously playing on both a studio and mk1 live, on both of those the kit would play correctly. On the mk3, i was getting a lot of false hits where I would audibly hear one of the prominent samples be very quiet or unheard. This got me to start testing and its very reproducible for me.

Related to this quote, he says they have reproduced the problem and found velocity differences of around or more than 10 steps, mind that this is a reduction in velocity not an increase which is important. Around or more than ten steps is approximately 8-10% variance from the full range of possible velocity steps from what the pad was supposed to be reporting. In the same response, he says they expect 2-4 steps variance which is only 1.5-3% variance. It sounds like they are downplaying the problem as if its normal but a 3-6x increase in variance is a lot and it is audibly affecting many users.

If you consider a 8-10% drop in velocity on very soft hits, then you will be missing hits as I know for a fact I hit the pads with lighter dynamics when I play certain parts. If you are dropping (8-10%) translated into 6-12 velocity steps at the lower range of possible sample layers, then you may be missing some hits which would explain why many others are experiencing less dynamics and jumps from very light to medium light hits like in some others videos.

If they can get it to 1.5-3% variance, then great. As it sits now, I can hear my kits sound differently on mk3, not just one kit. I would describe the kits as less dynamic and in some instances, problematic if I am dropping hits or have samples that sound mis-triggered/lower in volume than they should be sounding normally or in a recording.

 

No, you are misquoting me. I stated that we have *not* been able to reproduce the case described in the original post, where the differences seem to be around 10 steps in velocity. What we found is the same as on older devices, i.e. differences of 2-4 steps.
However, we are on the topic and also looking into how different playing styles might lead to different results on MK3 – and maybe to what you are experiencing. The bigger size of the pads might have an influence here, because they distribute the force applied when hitting a pad differently. We are looking into adjusting the handling of the raw pad data, because the resolution we get internally is much higher than the range from 0-127 we use in the end, for compatibility with MIDI notes.

 

My mistake, I misread your post, the 10 velocity steps was never part of my OP, the screenshots in the OP show a reduction of 10-24 velocity steps. I have reproduced this multiple times on multiple kits, there is no technique involved here. Bash as hard as you can with two fingers spread or both hands simultaneously, try to max both pads to 127, mine won't do it.

On a side note from my original post, similar to others, I do separately experience lighter hits not getting expressed either and there being some difficulty getting the pads to express lighter taps. I am experimenting with different sensitivity settings/modes too.

If the issue is caused by a faulty unit and the solution is to return and exchange it, then I will do that option now and see if the new unit has an issue.

 

This gives me hope.
As stated by a few people, the biggest issue is that soft touches don't register at all.
For consistently finger drumming ghost notes (which is crucial for me) The Mk3 needs to be able to pick up much softer touches.
Especially as NI marketed the pads as 'the most sensitive yet' etc
As it is now the Mk3 is not much more sensitive than my mk1

 

Have you all figured out how to fix the minimum trigger sensitivity of the MK3? Fix it so that the MK3 will trigger to touches as light as the MK2 and MK1 do???

 

In the MK3 pad sensitivity thread some people mentioned that the MK3 pads edges are more sensitive than the centers. With the centers of the pads being less sensitive than previous versions of the hardware.
Is the center vs edge sensitivity what you are referring to here?
Because hits to slightly different locations of the pads would explain bigger differences in recorded velocity.
Also, is there a way for a user to adjust the center vs edge sensitivity?

Thank You for commenting and informing us.