Smart Playlists in Traktor: WHEN?

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by NReek, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. tompei

    tompei NI Product Owner

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    No it doesn't. We RTFM too :)
     
  2. Kristian Hilgert

    Kristian Hilgert New Member

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    Now its time for me to swap the brand.... sorry NI but you honestly give a f*ck about what customers want.

    STILL NO SMART PLAYLIST IN TRAKTOR 3.

    Thanks.
     
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  3. Scoox

    Scoox NI Product Owner

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    This sucks. Who uses stems? Answer: Nobody. Who would use smart playlists? Answer: Everyone. Seven and a half years since this request and not one f*ck given by NI. Just bought Traktor Pro 3, should have tried the demo first, big waste of money.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  4. dj_estrela

    dj_estrela NI Product Owner

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    8 years and counting for this request...
     
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  5. ukmerlin

    ukmerlin New Member

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    I thought the features request thread was monitored by Native Instrument developers. Disappointed to see we still do not have this.
     
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  6. DJ Flex I

    DJ Flex I NI Product Owner

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    It is ridiculous when this thread is started.. Is anyone from NI watching these threads?
     
  7. DJ Priminista

    DJ Priminista NI Product Owner

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    Itunes node takes to long to load

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
     
  8. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

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    Oh they are watching. But they already admitted that Traktor code hit a brickwall.. So things like, retina support, streaming services integration, smart playlists are difficult/impossible to implement.

    Obviously there are more important things these days.. Like “everyone can DJ”(to get new people into the ecosystem) and staked waveforms, platters controllers to win back some of the people who went with Pioneer and Serato.. This is the stuff that generate money unfortunately:(

    I don’t really like the vibe NI have these days. Too much focus to the beginner amateur market. I’ll give a couple more years and see how Traktor/Maschine will grow. If I don’t like it will be the end of the road for me.
     
  9. andyfoz

    andyfoz NI Product Owner

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    Once one of the other competitors have the magical beat/grid/bpm detection that traktor has, The mass exodus of traktor will be of biblical preportions, because in my eyes thats the only thing it has left, its the trump card when talking dj software though and a tuff act to follow.

    Traktor 3 and the new s4 has paperd over the cracks for now but if denon where to equal the bpm detection of traktor i would be over to that denon sc5000m sharpish!
     
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  10. Jumeirah Sound System

    Jumeirah Sound System NI Product Owner

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    Guys, I appreciate the sentiment and smart playlists would be a nice improvement, but with a little bit of work you can get 99% of the functionality using regular playlists and/or iTunes.

    I tag all my tracks with "Genre", "SetTime", "Mood", "Vibe" and "Instruments", then just do a search in the search bar. Super easy and has totally transformed my mixing style (I have a huge library).

    I use Foobar 2000 for my tagging, running on Wine in Mac, with a custom tag list that I created based on this template: http://forum.djtechtools.com/showthread.php?t=95550

    Try it out! With a little elbow grease and ingenuity you can get everything you need except for track recommendations, but that's a different ball of wax.

    Best,
    JSS
     
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  11. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

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    I’m sorry but I couldn’t disagree more. That is not acceptable from leading DJ software in 2019. I want Traktor to do all of that for me. I don’t want to think about sorting my music chronologically, by label, mood, energy level.. I don’t have F*** to do that over and over. Again, it’s completely and utterly unacceptable! We are living in the era of AI, self driving cars, smart electronic devices yet NI can’t get a simple feature that people requested 10 YEARS AGO!!!!

    All the other major players have already implemented smart playlist for sometime now.. NI need to hurry if they don’t want to use even more market share!
     
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  12. Jumeirah Sound System

    Jumeirah Sound System NI Product Owner

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    "Completely and utterly unacceptable"? I'm sorry, should NI do your taxes and wipe your bum while they’re at it as well?

    Before we get into an argument, maybe we should define our terms. Perhaps we are talking about two different things.

    When I say “smart playlist”, I mean a function that says “make me a playlist of all tracks between 120 and 124 bmp, with this key range and these tags associated with them”. Then the software makes a list of those tracks. Traktor can do this now, exactly as I’ve described. More so if you integrate them in iTunes, which literally has a feature called “Smart Playlist” that is tremendously powerful.

    What it sounds like is you want is a “recommendations engine”. Recommendation engines are algorithms that say “If you liked this, maybe you'll like this other thing as well." For example, if you are playing track A, it could show you which tracks might go well with it to mix into next. Is that what you mean?

    Assuming that is what you mean, lets dig a bit deeper into that.

    In order for recommendation engines to work, you need all of the above information I described, plus hundreds of other things like shared track suggestions. Kado, which just went out of business, took examples from other people's playlists and would show you which tracks other people played after the one you were playing. Apps like Smoothie and Next just look at the same data as I described above (key, number of plays, number of stars, BPM, etc.) and suggest a track. They don't have a social recommendation engine like Kado and, while helpful, aren't very sophisticated.

    To get what you really want, lets take a look at of the best music recommendation engines out there, Spotify,. This article breaks it down very well: https://medium.com/@ericboam/i-deco...ion-algorithm-heres-what-i-found-4b0f3654035b. Spotify has over 30 million songs in its database, plus data from over 200 million active users. Each of its songs has around 5,000 data points associated with it, everything from where you live, to what other songs you like, to what people like you like, to how popular that song is, and so on. And even then, with thousands of times more data than NI has and millions of users to train it, it still needs three different algorithms to make recommendations and half the time they are terrible. NI doesn’t have any of that, nor should it. It’s not their business model. I'd rather have them focus on their core skill set and do it flawlessly.

    In any case, let’s imagine for a second that there was some version of an in-software recommendation engine that didn’t need a social network to power it, Spotify scale data to run it, and it didn’t totally suck. Then what?

    Then 99% of people using it would become like a human juke box. They would sound exactly the same. Everyone who relied on it instead of their ears, their own sense of style, or their own intention with a DJ set would be carbon copies of each other. That's because even the best algorithm can't read a crowd. It can't know what kind of club you’re playing it, or what playing a classic old bass line beneath the melodies of a new track even means. In short, it doesn't have your unique style; which is the thing that differentiates great DJ's from merely good ones.

    So even if NI could do this (and they can't, even if many amateurs and copycats would enjoy it), quality DJ's wouldn't use it. The recommendation engines in most music software are at best "ok", and in my experience, can't touch the creative flexibility of a well sorted, well tagged, deeply researched music library. Not that you need or will even listen to my advice, but spending the time digging deep in your digital crates is still at the heart of what DJ'ing is all about. Trust me, it will pay you back in dividends and make you a better musician, performer, and music aficionado.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  13. DJ Flex I

    DJ Flex I NI Product Owner

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    Dude, it looks like you don't know how smart playlists work. I want when I add a new track, once it's analyzed, I want it to go AUTOMATICALLY in all the smart playlists, that this track belongs, i.e. passes the filters of that playlists. It's completely dynamic. Anyway, I don't care anymore, already looking at recordbox.
     
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  14. Jumeirah Sound System

    Jumeirah Sound System NI Product Owner

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    You can do exactly that right now by using iTunes smart playlists as your file management system. Literally 100% exactly this.

    My last post was exploring other possible interpretations of "smart playlists" because, well, iTunes + Traktor literally already does what you just described and has for at least 5 years.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  15. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

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    Dude.. Did you even bother to read my post? Nobody asked for the “next song suggestion”. You just wrote a long ass post that is completely unrelated to what whe are discussing here. Looks like you need to do some research and understand what a smart playlist is before running your mouth..
     
  16. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

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    Here is a good start jumeirah. Alternatively you can watch this video and see what happen.. Oh and before you say it, I couldn’t care less about iTunes! I want smart playlists to be supported natively in Traktor..

     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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  17. Jumeirah Sound System

    Jumeirah Sound System NI Product Owner

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    You can do exactly that right now by using iTunes smart playlists as your file management system. Literally 100% exactly this.

    My last post was exploring other possible interpretations of "smart playlists" because, well, iTunes + Traktor literally already does what you just described and has for at least 5 years. See above.
     
  18. electrosomnie

    electrosomnie New Member

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    I have been wasting a lot of time recently, first because of Itunes that really sucks on PC, and then because I could not find an ideal alternative.
    I totally understand that it would be too much work for NI to support all the library management tools on the market. Yet, most of them like MusicBee, which is probably one of the best ones on PC, enable to generate automatically M3U Playlists from the smartplaylists. So, for Traktor to synchronise with it, we only need a feature enabling to batch import M3U playlists (and playlist folders). That should not be too complicated...
    what do you think of it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  19. andyfoz

    andyfoz NI Product Owner

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    for what its worth: i spent ages on rekordbox and found the smart playlist thing to be just ok. It didnt change the way i dj or the way i prefer to organise my music. i used the track suggestion feature much more before also not using it anymore.

    how ever if you do own rekordbox, make your smart playlist and drag it directly out of the rekordbox window and into a folder on the desktop and then into traktor, always a boring work around with traktor.

    spending my time on spotify and other peoples playlists gave me way more inspiration and new music than anything found in any dj software.

    saying that though, traktor need to listen to their customers and if this is what they want then this is what they should get.

    I see this post is from 2011 and ive had 3 kids in that time. So forget it.....................
     
  20. DJ Flex I

    DJ Flex I NI Product Owner

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    I don't want to use iTunes.. didn't pay for the need to use a 3rd party software, only to have something that all other dj software have. seems like you just don't get it. I DON'T WANT WORKAROUNDS, I want the software to be current with the other software. Currently, traktor has the worse browser of all 3 major software. The only reason I still use it, is it sounds better for some reason. It has all other flows, but being able to quickly find songs is important. I have a huge collection, and don't want to reduce it, because you never know what you will need. I have to do all sort of tricks, comments, whatever, just to try to do what other software do with ease.