Solutions for Midi-Out in Ableton

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Emptyself, Jan 7, 2010.

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  1. Emptyself

    Emptyself Forum Member

    Like many, I'd like to be able to use Maschine within Ableton Live, and be able to decide when I want to use internal sounds, or other instruments in Live. As others have pointed out, the problem with this is Live cant access different midi channels from a plugin. All channels get summed together.

    So far, it seems there are at least a couple of different workarounds, but with serious drawbacks. I'd like to see if there are others I'm not aware of?

    1. You can use Maschine inside Bidule running as a VST in Live, routing the midi out to a virtual midi port (Midi Yoke, etc) inside Bidule. Then you can select channels 1-16 from that port on a Live midi track. The big catch here is plugin delay compensation doesnt work. Once you start adding plugins in Live, your midi-outs from Maschine will be seriously out of time. (If you turn delay compensation off, then you can more easily play Machine but then every other track with plugins will be somewhat out of time.)

    2. Using Maschine inside Bidule again, you can just route midi to other VSTi's right inside Bidule. Then their audio can be routed to Live's audio tracks via the multiple Bidule outs. Plugin delay compensation will work properly. The drawback here is you cant really use Instrument Racks, Ableton Instruments, or automate the VSTi's parameters in Live. Nor can you just easily record the midi notes from Machine onto a Live track. (You can use a midi channel filter plugin in Bidule to at least route a single midi channel to Bidule's midi out - since, again, Ableton will treat plugins like they only have one channel output anyway.) This seems to be the only workable thing for me at the moment, since at least the timing is tight.

    Any better ways of doing this that I've missed?
  2. catfish

    catfish New Member

    These are the two methods I've tried.

    I can't think of any other work-arounds, other than running Maschine in standalone mode and slaving Live to it via the IAC driver (or what ever the PC equivalent is), then using Soundflower to pipe audio from Maschine into Live. I haven't actually tried this, as I want Maschine to run as a plug-in.

    I'm quite annoyed at Ableton (and I'm not usually the complaining sort) about this. I've tried Maschine in Logic (stupid AUs [sigh]), Reaper and Bidule (standalone), and Live would beat the **** out of all for them if the multi-channel MIDI was implemented properly.
  3. unknown stranger

    unknown stranger NI Product Owner

    there's a better way with bidule. found it somewhere else here on the forum:
    load it up as a vst in live and then in bidule load the maschine plugin and create a midi out to either midiyoke or a physical midi interface and connect this to the maschine plugin.
    in live activate track input for the midiyoke port you chose or connect a real cable from the output to the input of your pysical interface.
    now you can choose those inputs in the input dropdown menus in your lives midi channels.
    works like a charm for me.
  4. Emptyself

    Emptyself Forum Member

    Isn't that the same as #1?

    The problem I have there is for some reason plugin "delay compensation" results in those maschine midi-out tracks being out of time when you start adding plugins. You might not notice it with very simple plugins, but throw a convolution reverb or some spectral plugin on an unrelated track in your Live set - all the sudden those midi yoke tracks are off-time.

    Standalone mode might be better, because whatever the midi delay is, it would probably stay the same? (allowing you to use track delay to fix it...)
    oh yeah.. forgot Ableton does really wierd fluctuations with midi sync..

    it seems like it would be simple as another drop-down choice in Ableton, but its actually pretty cumbersome.. just using it inside kore or bidule alongside other VSTs seems the only reasonable & timing-accurate way that I can see at the moment.
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