sounds are cutting each other off?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by StarSMASH, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. StarSMASH

    StarSMASH NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    455
    I'm having this issue where I have sounds in different frequencies that sort of cut each other off when played at the same time.
    ex. my high hat's volume gets extremely low and a bass drum is played simultaneously, as well as the bass drum's volume gets extremely low as well. It's like they're competing, but they're in a different frequency range. I've turned the volumes down on both of them and it got a bit cleaner, but to the point where it's too low to make a musical impact in the arrangement. I'm not clipping either.

    I thought maybe EQ'ing would help and it did when i reduced the lows in the bass kick. The closed hat then responded a lot cleaner, but i don't understand why they'd be competing when they're at different frequencies? Now my bass drum doesn't have as much punch to it though.
    Have any of you got a solution for this or can explain why this is happening?
     
  2. van Grieg

    van Grieg NI Product Owner

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    229
    Do you have a compressor somewhere in the chain?
     
  3. scheffkoch

    scheffkoch NI Product Owner

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    555
    ...are only certain frequency affected?...otherwise it could be that the pads are in the same choke group...
     
  4. StarSMASH

    StarSMASH NI Product Owner

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    455
    no.....should I? I haven't got to that level of mixing just yet so I don't even really know how to use them like that.

    i never assigned anything to any choke group though
     
  5. scheffkoch

    scheffkoch NI Product Owner

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    555
    ...if it's a kit from an expansion pack then sometimes these are preconfigured...
     
  6. van Grieg

    van Grieg NI Product Owner

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    229
    No, it just sounds like it could be an effect of a misconfigured compression...

    Does it always happen? If you start a new project and load a factory kit, does it happen there?
     
  7. awol9000

    awol9000 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,050
    You need to filter everything. Hi pass on high hats and low pass on kick. Machine's stock filters are fine for this.

    There are competing frequencies you can't hear. Trust me it will make a difference.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  8. awol9000

    awol9000 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,050
    You don't want to reduce the lows in the kick. you want to reduce the highs in the kick and reduce the low in the hi-hat.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  9. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,508
    There's no limiter on the master? With such different frequency ranges one sound shouldn't completely drown another if there's no heavy distortion involved, low energy takes more space so it's natural that the kick makes the hats a little lower but it shouldn't be super drastic.

    People usually Hi-Pass hats since there are often unneeded low frequencies (especially if it comes from a drum break) but I never saw it to the point where it affects a bass/kick this much. Removing high frequency from the kick might decrease the transient and make it sound less punchy.

    Can you upload a project with just the kick and hat so we can have a looksy? I am curious.
     
  10. StarSMASH

    StarSMASH NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    455
    yea it still happens
    i'll have to try this again....
    you mean upload the project as a .mxprj file? sure i'll do that when i get home
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. StarSMASH

    StarSMASH NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    455
    here you go. I EQ'ed the high hats so it's not as noticeable, but you can tell when you hit the high hats at full velocity, the volume is high. when you hit the kickdeebounce 1 & kickdeebounce 2 with the closed HH dee bounce 1 at the same time all at high velocity, you can hear the first high hat volume get lower but the beat delayed one is at a higher volume. Is this a good instance to use a compressor?
     
  12. RudeGullit

    RudeGullit NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    490
    Sounds like there is a limiter on the group level to me. Do you use a drum kit from an expansion pack? They oftentimes have effects at group level. If so, disable it, or adjust the threshold. That should work I think.

    PS: can't open the project file.
     
  13. Reefius

    Reefius NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    454
    I can open the project, but it uses sounds from an expansion that I don't own, so I can't hear the drums.
    I've noticed that on 2 of the groups there's a limiter on group level, have you tried disabling (or removing) them? I believe they could be the source of the problem.
     
  14. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,508
    You have Pan settings on your MetaVerb FX on the Group Level of your Drums (D1) that's a big no-no! Even with the Mix % set at zero it messes up all your sound level mixing, especially the Hi-Hat that already has a Stereo Delay with Panning settings on it, it basically is panned twice + delay which results in weird behavior.

    The MetaVerb Pan pans the whole Group, your drums are basically around 50% to the right (25R), in Hip-Hop or related sub-genres you never want your Kick or Snare Panned, it's pretty much a golden rule. So, turn off your MetaVerb and its fixed.

    When debugging a mixing issue, always try turning off every possible FX to double check how the audio interacts with them, if you were to add more signal processing like a compressor or any other thing to fix the issue you could end up making it worse or just wasting resources.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. StarSMASH

    StarSMASH NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    455
    D-One, Thank you for the detailed response and informing me about my mistake. I can't thank you enough- seriously.

    I just got into mixing and have much to learn, but thanks for the tip in bold especially.