SSL vs TS

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR SCRATCH' started by djquartz, May 15, 2007.

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  1. harry_Tf

    harry_Tf Forum Member

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    no, real info, just bad choice in words i should of said "video software" instead of "video unit" for video...my bad. in 1.8 the communication software is built in for video, thus crossfader control with crossfade for video as well as cue points for video where you'd have cue points for audio from the new software will link up with regular ssl control, at least thats what i've been told. Sorry for the bad wording todd, just added it in super fast and wasn't really paying attention.i saw it at anaheim namm but i wasn't really too into it. it did spawn a discussion tho whether djing is for playing music for people to dance to or for having a bunch of people stand around and watch the video, as we all were.
     
  2. dj_huck

    dj_huck NI Product Owner

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    in all fairness, you will have to pay for a lot of updates with ts updates(if history is an indicator) and traktor updates. so if you have to pay for one update in ssl it is not really a strike against ssl
     
  3. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

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    5,321
    Past is past...

    Traktor 3.3 - Free update for registered users.

    Traktor Scratch - Free updates for registered users.

    I know everyone is still skeptical because of the whole FS fiasco, but this is different ball game.

    NI is solely responsible for the product with no interference from another company.

    So I don't think they would want to risk not fixing stuff, etc after putting time and money into a new platform.

    Would you?

    As for the whole video arguement, that will be a whole new topic for vdj's and SSL with be compared to Ms Pinky, Virtual Vinyl, etc..

    On a DVS vs DVS arguement, video is a totally separate discussion. TS nor T3 supports video therefore it's not a contender in this area. Video support in SSL is not available to public yet either so it doesn't classify for video support either.

    All we can truly discuss is audio quality, tracking capability, functionality, GUI layout, control vinyl quality, and hardware interface, technical support quality, etc.

    Just my $.02
     
  4. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

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    5,321
    Well I played out last night with my laptop for the first time apart from doing a couple radios on it recently.

    The other DJ I was spinning with was using SSL, so at the end of the night I got a little hands on with SSL.

    Since I obviously use the SSL hotkey file, I was able to use the functions without knowing the software.

    What I noticed with SSL right away is it loses tracking if you move the vinyl too slow, and I proved that right on the spot between TS and SSL to two users of SSL that night.

    I did a slow drag on TS and everyone watched TS track every right down to a dead halt. I did the same on SSL and it lost tracking and jumped to the position once it detected again. I also experienced the same limitation in FS2 when you move the record very slowly.

    The other DJ who was hanging out was trying TS and said fast movements are better on TS. Now remember this is not me saying this.

    I found SSL to respond to fast movements just fine, so I'm not sure if he just needs to adjust his settings on his system.

    What I didn't like was the GUI, but to me it's personal preference. Some DJ's hate the Traktor GUI as well.

    I just found the white on black and fine text to be hard on my eyes. I could only take that for 5 minutes tops and I couldn't handle it.

    Once again this is just my preference, the Traktor GUI could be hard on other people's eyes also.

    One thing I do like is the prepare window which would come in very handy.

    This was requested a long time ago for Traktor. But before I usually got to use SSL, I didn't know what the prepare windows was.

    I called it the Requests list back in the day but I didn't realize SSL had exactly that. This will be a good feature in TS as well being a DJ product.

    I liked the active search functionality. It was nice to type in search criteria and it would automatically start listing hits. This request was forwarded couple weeks back when a TS user mentioned it on the forum coming over from SSL.

    The other thing I noticed was sound quality. During the night we were mixing back and forth. TS was clear and punchy compared to SSL. SSL was sounding very muddy which surprised me.

    However I don't know if it's the gain quality in TS that is superior to SSL, if it was the soundman or the way I had my EQ set. The output volume of the A8 could be significantly hotter than the SL1 box as well. I will have to check the audio characteristics of both interfaces.

    But there was a few times when I came in and I had to turn down my channel because it was much clearer than the SSL set.

    Other than that I know I did raise some eyebrows that night but I could see that both platforms are good products.

    I just prefer TS, ha ha ha. :)
     
  5. yagru

    yagru Forum Member

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    The A8 has a much hotter/higher output than the SL1 which is good, but I will tell you this, TS colors the sound in a ridiculous way compared to SSL. Someone else did a frequency analyzation of TS and it sweeps a large amount of the frequency. The benefit of this is that it lets your mixes be alot more forgiving, but Id rather have a true representation of the sound and leave the handling of files frequencies to me.

    After using TS hardcore for the past 2 weeks I am back to SSL and prob will be staying there. Also keep in mind that SSL is user configured, so if its not configured in the best way for the enviroment then you might get crap sound or crap reactivity. This leaves alot upto the djs ability to configure the system (which I preffer) as opposed to TS which does it auto.. which is good too if you preffer that.
     
  6. yagru

    yagru Forum Member

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    78
    plus I would take any reports on sound quality with a grain of salt unless you know exactly all the criteria involved and that the criteria is exactly the same. Meaning, you have to get them setup at the same output with the same mp3s/wavs on the same system.. configured roughly the same way, otherwise sound quality could be attributed to a number of variables. On the other hand I agree you might get a better sound of what your lookin for out of TS, but that means you like getting a colored sound.
     
  7. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

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    5,321
    My question is did they disable the gain and limiter when they did the analysis?

    If you play tracks in TS with both the limiter and gain turned off there is BIG difference in sound.
     
  8. yagru

    yagru Forum Member

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    78
    good question.. i dont know.. ill look into it

    I do spin with those settings off and still hear quite a bit of difference in sound.

    When used though, the auto gain feature does seem to do a better job of getting a correct gain than the ssl auto gain does.
     
  9. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

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    5,321
    Cool, fair enough.
     
  10. nik39

    nik39 NI Product Owner

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    757
    I compared both as well, and I couldn't spot much of a difference. However, I am not quite sure if this is really relevant at that slow speeds.

    Surprises me, b/c TS should be handly fast movements worse than SSL due to the limitation of 2kHz timecode. (Timecode base frequency will determine maximum speed recognition)

    I read the opposite but didn't have time actually to cross compare both, as yugra said it's not something which can do in a rush. You need time, and you have to precise taking care about lots of variables.
     
  11. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,321
    Where I could see a problem is setting cues, loop points and when you are doing scratch tricks when you drag the record slowly.
    I use vinyl control 100% of the time and it was something that I noticed right away.

    As for the fast movements, I haven't seen any problems in that area for TS. But I didn't see any problems in SSL from that brief test.

    As for the muddy sound, as I pointed out. I cannot fault SSL because it could have been the EQ, etc, etc.
     
  12. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,765
    this is something i heard from several ssl users and this is the first thing ssl users tried on our demo station with TS on the musikmesse (or last week on that workshop i did).

    yeah, definitly a question of taste.

    can you explain more detailed?

    this is so true. TS and traktor really lack from not being able for dynamic search - it's btw requested since a long time before TS development. i remember asking people for this feature since fs1.5.

    on deejayforum.de someone posted two files for a blind test.
    i said one example was sounding muddier and less dynamic than the other, which was really sharp and clear sounding.
    the latter was the audio 8 - so this is how my ears identify the difference.

    lol, that's exactly what i usually say! ;)
     
  13. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,321
    @ NG

    From what I experienced the prepare window is like a temporary song list.

    You can make a list of songs independent from the main collection or crates lists.

    You can load tracks directly from the prepare window or use it to build overviews (analyze) for those tracks.

    What I liked about this is you can build requests list/track queue using this windows. Plus you can still search, switch crates or look at your main collection independently.

    It's a 1/4 size window located above the playlist window.

    Currently the SSL hotkey file has Ctrl-P (Prepare) mapped to the analyze function in TS.

    If this 'prepare' window was implemented it would be changed to add the highlighted track to this list instead.
     
  14. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,765
    ah, now i understand. similar to the current playlist a little bit, but even more temporary.
     
  15. gabriel lang

    gabriel lang New Member

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    10
    That's why I hope NI will add more customisable preferences to Traktor Scratch soon, so you can change colors of all the functions, tabs, etc, in the main window ;)
     
  16. Sinjintek

    Sinjintek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    322
    that reminds me, does the Audio8 actually "clip" or does the meter simply indicate that the signal level is exceding 0db?

    if this is the case i'm not overly concerned with the TS limiter, i can adjust my channel gain on the mixer...my master output is passed through a DSP (compressor/limiter, etc.) and BBE sonic maximizer (yes i realized my sound is "colored") before recorded and/or sent to my amps.
     
  17. swavek

    swavek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    62
    Well, what the hell. I had FS1.5, upgraded to FS2 w/ TDJS, then upgraded my Mac and FS2 stopped working. So I was forced to get Serato, hated it at first, but it grew on me. In a big way, too. So much so that even though I now have Traktor Scratch, I sold my SSL... only to buy the TTM57SL. Why? Mainly because as much as I try, I just can't bring myself to move back from what is arguably the most DJ friendly interface to one... well, like Traktor. Great for computer DJ's, but very unfriendly for live DJ's. And I do mean - unfriendly.
     
  18. yagru

    yagru Forum Member

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    78
    lol why would you sell your SSL? i hope you did just to get the 57 and not just because you got TS. :S

    It does take a while to adjust to SSL interface but once you do, it is very hard to move on from it. I still havent been able to get comfortable with the TS interface yet.. its not bad by any means, but ultimately for live djing, SSL is just better imo.
     
  19. Sinjintek

    Sinjintek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    322
    i have to agree, you should definitely hold onto a product that you know works well for you until you KNOW that your replacement is good enough. that way you can sell or return the new product if it doesn't meet your expectations.

    still, you mention that it took time for SSL to "grow on you"...were you certain that TS wouldn't? either way, congrats on the 57 purchase, i wouldn't mind having an axe like that in my arsenal :)
     
  20. swavek

    swavek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    62
    well, for starters TS doesn't have to grow on me - like I said, I used various incarnations of Traktor for quite a few years, so I know it well enough. It's just that back then I had no comparison, now I do and while ultimately you can do most things in both programs, in Serato it's just easy and intuitive, and you can do it all whilst playing, whereas in Traktor it's not easy, not intuitive at all, and most things you have to prepare in your bedroom to be then able to use live. And I don't really need a mammoth like Traktor - all I'm after is a vinyl emulation program. And while Serato still tries to stay as close to this as possible, Traktor goes for filters, FXs, internal mixers, and whatnot - nothing wrong with it, but it ain't what I'm after. But then - Serato was created from the ground up for, and with, DJ's in mind. Traktor was created for people playing music off their computers, and DJing was then added as an afterthought. And this approach could best be seen when they created Scratch - not even trying to adjust it to DJ's needs, but expecting DJ's to adjust to Scratch. So, while I have no problem playing with Scratch, or even Traktor, at home - I'm not, at least not yet, ready to take it live with me (I get cold sweat at a mere thought of having to (re)create Cue Points and Loops in Scratch - a task that is almost pleasureable, but certainly simple and straightforward, in Serato).

    And that's where TTM57 comes in. When, two weeks ago, I finally wised up to what you can do with it, and how you can play all night without touching your keyboard even once, controlling each and every aspect of your software - and more! - from the mixer, I sold my HAK-380 and SSL, and got me this ingenious little device.

    ------------

    2 x Stanton ST.150
    Rane TTM57SL
    Audio 8 DJ + Scratch/TDJS
    Digi002
    MacBook Pro 17"
     
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