Stacked wave-form views.

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by t0t4l_n3wb, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Messages:
    49
    I would like to see the option come to Traktor to have both wave form views paired in a 'side by side' in the center of the screen or a 'one on top of the other' at the top of the screen kind of position. I think that either of these arrangements is far more practical than having the wave form views spaced away from each other. And sure, someone might say "the center? But that's where the mixer and everything goes!" - but, hear me out. If you have your waveforms in the center, then you have alllllllll that room over in the left and right hand sides.
     
  2. coolout1

    coolout1 New Member

    Messages:
    19
    +10000

    Myself and others have been asking for years. Honestly, this is the biggest thing that keeps me on other DJ apps and from using Traktor when I gig.

    Full horizontal, stacked waveforms are just a better use of screen real estate in my opinion. It's easier to see the arrangement and to time transitions with breakdowns.

    We should at least have the option.
     
  3. mastermc

    mastermc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3,148
    not this again.
     
  4. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Messages:
    49
    What's wrong with N.I. ''copying'' off other software's layouts? Serator already ''copied'' Traktor's effects and even took it -further- with having whole downloadable "packs" of effects you can add (and please don't say "well cool story bro, stick to Serato then!" - I have an AMD chipset, and Serato apparently doesn't like those). So what would be the harm in Traktor ''copying'' the layouts from Serato or Virtual DJ? If something is efficient and it's something people want, let them have it. It would be like game console manufacturers -not- copying the crosspad because they would be copying Nintendo. Or not having analog sticks because "Sega had that on the Saturn (the '3D' gamepad for 'Knights into Dreams') did they throw a fit at Sony when they came out with the Dual Analog or at Nintendo when they came out with the n64 controller? If something actually -helps- a user better utilize a product, why would you avoid using it?

    A stacked waveform is more efficient. Imagine if a Multitrack software like say, Adobe Audition
    (formerly Cool Edit) had all your waveforms separated instead of stacked one on top of the other?

    Imagine if Traktor had your waveforms for decks A, B, C and D all nice and stretched out at the top of the screen, mixer could still be underneath in the middle, and with the waveforms all nice and condensed into something less tall yet still able to show you where the beats are at, they would have more room to have things like the effects knobs and the sampler underneath and yet also still have room to show the library.

    And why "not this again" is the title of this forum section; "Feature Suggestions," a lie
    and this is really just a place for hopefuls to post suggestions that will never be read
    and for trolls to come shoot them down and say nothing positive or helpful? If that was
    the case, maybe they should have just labeled the section "4chan 2.0" instead.
     
  5. mastermc

    mastermc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3,148
    at least post in an existing thread instead of starting a new thread. This feature has been requested a million times and I think N.I. are just not in the mood of making us happy.
     
  6. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Messages:
    49
    How was I to know that it had already been written about and requested "a million times" (and if such was the case, wouldn't N.I. have taken the suggestion and ran with it by now?) And why should I have to dig through the pages to find someone else's thread to comment in? Or being my luck, the thread I find about it would be locked (like Quartz' 5 page thread of getting people to request support for the NS7).

    Anyway, to anyone who actually cares (like coolout1) I made a mock up image of what I think would be an idea Traktor layout. This is more intended as a fullscreen layout that tries to make -almost- everything visible and is really is something more meant to be switched to "Library" view when browsing tracks. (As the way my layout is made, there isn't even enough room to have some of the Library still visible, but since you can just hit spacebar or whatever to go to Library View, I don't think it'd be much of an issue).

    http://s15.postimg.org/4mtugzv5n/TRAKTOR_Facelift.png
    I hope N.I. sees this and it maybe inspires them to give Traktor a facelift.

    (If anyone likes this arrangement, please tell customer support with a message,
    apparently that is the -real- way to be heard since they don't check these forums)
    http://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/contact-support/
     
  7. mastermc

    mastermc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3,148
    search the forums
     
  8. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Messages:
    49
    So.... go through page after page of old post history to avoid accidentally posting about a topic that's already been posted about. Yeah, sounds like tons of fun. And you already said "N.I. people -occasionally- browse these forums" and if they didn't, why would they even bother creating a section for feature suggestions if they had no intention of ever looking at it?


    If people request something "a million times" and it's actually something doable and they don't do it...
    Then yeah, I guess they really -don't- care about the happiness of their customers. Which is odd, since
    one would think that they'd -want- to make us happy so we wouldn't jump ship to something else. But
    tbh, nothing else out there is as reliable and as diverse as Traktor, imo.
     
  9. mastermc

    mastermc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3,148
    don't get me wrong, I do love traktor alot but it has alot of room for improvement. Not having smart playlist in the year 2013 along with other stuff this is very important that traktor does not have is very unacceptable.
     
  10. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

    Messages:
    12,056
  11. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Messages:
    49
    Wither because "people stop having anything to add" or because "either way, it won't matter because N.I. doesn't care and they're not going to listen to anything the users want, regardless of what it is or how many of them ask so why bother." (Just like support for the NS7. I believe there was a thread started by Quartz that had nearly 66 pages? Never went anywhere...) - I guess it is pointless to try to have any kind of positive input here, even if you show a demand for something, it will just be ignored. Thank you for showing me the 'light' Karlos. (And thanks for un-closing my thread, however 'useless' you feel it is.)


    On 9/3/13, NI-Ticket-System <ni-support@native-instruments.com> wrote:
    > Hello t0tal_n3wb,
    >
    > Thanks for your response. We have definitely had requests before for
    > changing the location of the waveform and our developers are aware of the issue.
    > However, I am not aware of any plans to implement this in a future version of Traktor.
    >
    > I imagine if there are more people like you with solid constructive input,
    > then it may have more of a possibility of happening.
    >
    > Thank you again.
    >
    > carlos
    > Native Instruments Support Team

    I hope that isn't you, Karlos.
     
  12. DrRek

    DrRek New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Wow you got a response. See my "solid constructive input" here:
    http://www.native-instruments.com/f...-analysis-and-display/page2&highlight=stacked

    Also, after six years of Traktor (06-12, and 10 years before that on vinyl and radio), I switched to Serato DJ and I am a much happier DJ now. We shall see if Traktor can win me back, this long ignored feature request from many faithful users being honored would be about what it takes. So tired of beatgriding tracks, I just wanna dig for tracks and DJ them, ya know.
     
  13. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Messages:
    49
    Bassfly: "Why would Serato users jump to Traktor just because Traktor started offering exact the same layout as Serato? This makes no sense. Traktor should be kept unique and not redesigned as a Serato or VDJ clone." (quote edited from original for better comprehension)

    Okay, imagine for a second that because Adobe Audition didn't want to "copy off" some other multi-track software like say, FL Studio or whatever, they decided that instead of aligning all your samples in a nice horizontal stack, they had you trying to line up your samples in little windows on opposite sides of the screen. Seriously, imagine having to do that. I really don't understand why a -layout- would get them into legal trouble. It's just an arrangement, it's not like they're aping Serato or VDJ's patented technology. And hell, look at Serato's effects banks, -they- already started copying off Traktor, probably because they figured out that people saw Itch as a very vanilla flavored software without those effects. It makes -zero- sense to not do something just because "well, these other guys already have that and we don't wanna seem like we're aping them." Imagine Sega not copying the Dpad, Sony not copying the analog stick (or Sony, Dreamcast and Xbox copying off the '4 buttons in a diamond' layout from the SNES). Yeah, let's just hand the advantage over to the competition just for the sake of staying 100% original.

    Ohhh, may as well not have any buttons at all, since somebody else came up with those at some point, and carts, well, Atari and Intellivision were already doing those! Can't do disc mediums either, wouldn't wanna be copying off Dragon's Lair, since that ran off Laserdisc. (And Traktor may as well not have -any- knobs, since everybody else has those. Oh, and then of course there's Rebirth and FL Studio, I mean... someone -else- had the whole 'tick on or off beats' thing before they did, right? So they're not being original either. Damn dirty copy cats!)

    Seriously, it's stupid. It's halting of progress just for the sake of not changing "If you want it to behave like [x] then go use [x]! It's been this way since blabbity blah, and it works fine for -meeeeee-!" Yeah, and 56k dial-up internet was perfectly fine for my mother in rural Ohio, she didn't download things on a regular basis so of course it didn't matter to -her- that it took 4 hours just to download a 25 mb video file off Grokster. And this isn't like Myspace, Facebook and Gmail doing forced 'upgrades' that you have no choice about and once the 'new' way is out you can never go back to the 'old' way (ugh, friggin' -hate- the New Compose in Gmail), this would simply be an -OPTION- that you could use if you would -like- to. Same as the -OPTION- to have Decks 3 and 4 be sample decks or track decks, or having the effects section be in full view with knobs or condensed view with flat sliders. Don't want it to be in that layout? Then don't use it. But those of us who -do- want that arrangement -will- use it.

    @DrRek - As I was browsing Serato's forums and reading DJ Quartz' posts over there (looking for more info about the NS7 and progress as far as Traktor native support is concerned), I noticed something rather peculiar. They actually have reps who go into the forums and -INTERACT- with the community and say stuff! Sbangs (Simon Bangs, Numark Rep) would actually take time out to -RESPOND- to posts from users. When was the last time someone from N.I. (not just mods, like Karlos) involved themselves in a conversation on these threads??? It's like this place may as well not even exist to them. You'd think that if they cared about user happiness and wanted to be on top of the pulse of what users are craving as far as features and hardware support is concerned, they would maybe send someone in to read these threads once in a while. You know, pay somebody to 'data mine' the crap outta this place. Srsly... How does a 66 page thread by Quartz go without ever getting some official attention?
     
  14. KLH

    KLH NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    566
    I'd love to have a redesigned UI with stackable waveforms in Traktor. I just don't think that NI will ever implement it... because they would have already.

    -KLH
     
  15. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Messages:
    49
    Maybe -all- of this stuff, -all- this time we've just been going about it the wrong way,
    posting in these forums, gathering comments when no N.I. people will ever see it since
    they don't come here. Maybe that customer service link thing was the real ticket all along.
    Sucks, thinking how -every- post ever made by people on here requesting features or
    hardware support was just a complete waste of their time and energy.

    http://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/contact-support/
     
  16. djreff

    djreff NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    112
    why care?????

    NI doesn't
     
  17. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Messages:
    49
    I'm really trying to not fall into that defeatist attitude,
    but with you and Karlos, it's getting quite difficult to
    have any degree of hope of change or improvement.
    Guess in another 5 years, N.I. will have held themselves
    back so much that they stop making software altogether
    and just focus on making S5 type toys for everyone to use
    on Itch and VDJ, which they won't because they'd rather
    use their NS7 III's and whatever, lol. I don't -hate- N.I.
    I just want to see some evolution and betterment
    on their part... but if they don't take user feedback
    into account, I don't see how that'll ever happen.
     
  18. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

    Messages:
    12,056
    What the HELL have I got to do with any of this..?

    I'm not preventing NI from implementing this feature.

    You seem to forget that the forum represents a tiny portion of Traktor users, and of that tiny portion and even smaller portion support this request. It's been said by other members how this is not as popular as you would have people believe.

    Traktor has the Phase Meter, the most powerful visual tool for super-tight beat matching and maybe, just maybe NI simply do not want to stack the waveforms.

    You also claim it to be an improvement. Well not to me. I would not use stacked waveforms and neither would ANY of the DJ's I know that use Traktor (and thats a lot more than the average user).

    I wish they would make an official statement and say once and for all whether they have any intention of implementing this feature because then at least we could stop going over the same old ground.

    No-one is preventing this from happening other than NI themselves and that speaks volumes to me.

    Karlos
     
  19. comment

    comment NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    41
    Which is useless without proper beatgrid. NI said they was going to implement some kind of elastic grid. Never did. Why?
    I'm with you on they need to say what they is/isn't going to implement.
     
  20. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Messages:
    49
    Well, it's just that you (and others here) naysay the crap out of everything.
    That kind of makes it hard to have any sort of optimism concerning a topic.