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stereo only...

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by ntula, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,208
    maschine still processes in stereo only, am i correct, and cannot process mono files as singe channel mono, instead as ones that are "double mono", am i correct...

    sorting through the plug ins and wondering if i should keep the mono effects...
     
  2. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,525
    Yes unfortunately correct so mono fx make no sense in maschine I guess, but I never tried it, is then only the left side routed? I only use a plugin that can disable or blend the side signal for example after a reverb where I send the bd to, mono reverb can be really cool for some purposes.

    Uwe
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,208
    ... waves includes mono, mono to stereo, and stereo plugs... guese i can disable the mono ones... i like to have the kick and bass in mono... .. and it converts a mono file to stereo on any export.... i wonder if it keeps a mono sound mono if you do not use effects until it is exported... but i noticed it you export a mono file like that, it just give you a file that is the same left and right, losing the center feel... i suppose you could force it to center with a mono to stereo plug....
     
  4. bargale

    bargale New Member

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    28
    The only way to use mono plugins is by lowering the channel by 6 db before it enters the plugin you're after(aka you'll need to user another insert before the mono plugin).
    Or... if you're using a plugin with separate in/out gain just lower it by 6 db in the input
    p.s the double mono way of how maschine works does not make you lose the centre feel,
    it is just bad cpu management, the good part is that there is an option to
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  5. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,053
    Indeed, not different from playing a mono file and listening to it from 2 speakers.

    This one is is one of my default maschine plugins. (it is free)
    Untitled.png

    https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/panipulator/
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  6. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,525
  7. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,208

    that is very true, the loss of the center feel is more so from the loudness of the double mono file in respect to the panning of the rest of the sounds and negotiating that respective to the mix. ... and yes, what a waste of cpu.. most inefficient as nearly half of the machine libraries could be in mono and if you add it all up since it appears maschine has to process the realtime playback of a mono files as stereo as well, it takes a huge hit on the cpu, and you cannot just convert them to mono as user sounds for use in maschine... the only gain in using mono files in maschine is hard disc access and loading the smaller size mono files in ram for the sampler... i suppose when you export you can batch convert some of the files to mono for another DAW, or do it within the program like you can in cubase.

    i have waves mercury so it creates a mess of plug-ins to manage, was looking to clean it up for maschine... will keep the mono to stereo ones, but i suppose there is no point in keeping the mono ones when there is a stereo one of the same plug if it is going to process in stereo anyway unless the real time processing remains true to the audio source while previewing/playback prior to rendering.

    i have panipulator. waves also has a stereo width type plug as well.
     
  8. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,053
    I have Mercury too, it really is a mess. I disabled AU so cut it half..
    For monoizing sounds, if waves in channelstrip, i use mono version of waves instead of panipulator.
     
  9. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,208
    maschine cannot use vst 3, so the side chain only works in au, so i just kept the au verson of c6 side chain active. any other compressors you can do the same. the h delay can side chain as well as i do that in cubase. c6 sidechain, cla2a, h delay, are some of the waves side chain plugs that you may have to keep the au version active for... .. i kept a few of the mono waves plugs active that i many use on my own kick, vox, and bass sounds, but most i disabled.. also, all the 360 and 5.0/1 surround plugs as well...
     
  10. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,208
    ... just checked, you cannot side chain h-delay in maschine like you can in cubase.. ... another thing.. if you create presets with waves, or maybe others vendors, au plug-ins and then use a vst version of the same plug-in, either on a mac or pc, it will not just load the vst version, instead it will give you an error and your presets are useless and your project is not the same.,..
     
  11. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,053
    I've learned that hard way. Made many presets with Izotope Stutter edit and noticed they wont load if i disable AU.. Took a while to remake them in VST.
    For me, another reason not to use 2 formats..

    Maybe we should be happy NI didnt make nks like AAX.. Maschine only :p
     
  12. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,208
    found out the hard way as well...... one of the reasons i do not use AU is this and that i may want to open my files on a pc and it is very mac only

    ... my rant on vst 2 being still in maschine....

    VST2 is an early standand from like 1999, AU adds some features beyond VST2, like the side chain, but VST3 goes way beyond AU and adds the side chain, more audio input, and midi routing... and many others... .

    VST3 info, hope NI reads this.. vst 3.5 has been out for 6 years, why is maschine still vst 2 only....
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  13. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    8,454
    What elements of AU and VST3 are you saying that VST2.4 does not have? VST2.4 allows sidechaining, audio input, and MIDI routing, no?
     
  14. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,525
    It allows side chaining BUT the Waves stuff does not support it with maschine - as mentioned on the Waves website

    As you can see here under exception notes
    https://www.waves.com/support/tech-specs/supported-hosts
     
  15. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    8,454
    OK... But that's a Waves issue and up to Waves to sort it, as far I can see. Nothing to do with what VST2.4 is or isn't capable of.
     
  16. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,525
    Exactly
     
  17. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,208
    au provided some technical advantages over vst 2 on the mac, vst 2.4 is close to that but is discontinued for vst 3. apple is more interested in pro phones than pro audio... vst 3 is more advanced than au... you can find the facts on vst 3 at the link i posted. apple does not maintain a non developer link for au and what it offers.

    it is in the link list. yes you can do side chaining in 2.4, but not with waves in mashine, but you can with waves in cubase and live, so it is a maschine and waves issue. vst3 allows for more audio inputs and midi, and in the app the plug-ins should arrange in the plug in folder by type they are, like reverb, etc...

    the presets and side chaining is blocked for waves in maschine still... but now new waves instruments do appear in the factory libraries.... and side chain is blocked in wave arts plug ins as well,, so it is not just waves...

    vst 2.4 is a legacy format, and is no longer being developed unlike AU and VST3.

    if you are going to limit the plug-ins to a 1999 standard, then you might as well still support OS X 10.2
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  18. granmah

    granmah NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    147
    I have a problem with it, it doesn't save its settings when I save a project. Have you discovered a way to solve that?