Stereo or surround from B4II

NuKeys is simply looking for an argument. He keeps contradicting everything he types in these threads and each post has a little different banter to it. Get the story straight friend.

 

Unfortunately, this once again displays a lack of understanding of what makes up a stereo signal. You can most certainly have mono from two channels - as long as they are sending out the exact same signal. As soon as one channel differs from the other (in other words will not null each other out when timealigned and the phase is inverted on one) you have stereo.

As for deriving true surround from B4 (as in the effect of micing the Leslie in quad), there is no easy way to do it with the current software. The problem with using the delay approach is that it will also delay the notes being played, which wouldn't occur in real life. You would also have amplitude/phase shifts to account for independently for each rotor.

 

I have no lack of understanding of what constistutes mono or stereo! You can have infinite inputs or outputs and as long as the input is mono they are all such. The same goes for the outputs. I do not need a lesson from anyone in electronics thanks very much.
And, No, I am not looking for an arguement at all I do not believe the person who mentioned that is correct at all, thats pretty childish. It is my understanding that this is a forum to express ones self as intelligently as possible. Neither am I trying to bantering with anyone that is very childish and mean spirited. I thoroughly enjoy talking tech issues with anyone that knows what they are talking about. I knew b411 was stereo but just wanted to play the devils advicate a bit. nukeys.

 

NOT MONO - it's a stereo output. I run it through stereo studio monitors and you get the full effect, but it is very convincing if you feed the L+R aux input of a keyboard amp like the Behringer KX-1200 which is a mono amp - it produces a very convincing - on-axis impression of what you would here sitting directly in front of a Leslie. I'd use it in both scenarios, and I also have a scratch built 120 W leslie 145 to compare it with Check out my home page.

 

If as you say you are a professor with a doctorate in music you would know that your two ears hear in stereo and that the Leslie's combination of amplitude modulation, doppler effect and frequency modulation, and constantly changing directional reflections from the rotating elements cause each ear to hear something different at any given point in time. This is interpreted by the brain as the source emanating from a particular point in the aural field. It's called stereolocating. For details on how this happens with a Leslie you can visit: http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/mystery/mystery.html You hear mono if one ear is deaf. From a recording studio standpoint or a live performance standpoint the notion of stereo is a result of reproducing the point-in-time differences between what is heard in the left channel and right channel with pan affecting the apparent distance between sound sources in the left and right and reverb or delay affecting the depth or distance between the listener and the sound source.

When we perform pre-master mixing and change pan settings of individual channels and add delay, reverb, etc we are attempting to reproduce the three dimensional space that our ears hear naturally, by "placing" the various tracks of the recording in this three-dimensional space. If the approximation is close enough to fool our ears into hearing the real thing we can't tell the difference - we hear in stereo, the B4 outputs in stereo - period.

NI has done an excellent job of reproducing this and the output is definitely not a mono out, but a stereo recreation of what your ears would hear listening to a real Leslie interacting with the acoustics of its environment.

 

Look what I started - I've never seen this messageboard so active.

It's good to see

 

vitesse67, Is this all not fantastic, you can not get much more lively than this. So many people doing such an outstanding job of explaining how stereo is supposed to sound, and explaining how the b411 leslie compares to a real one!
Though I must admit the b411 program is very sterile in that it does not have the woody sounds of a real Hammond and any of the older Leslies.
Hopefully you know what type of speaker set up to purchase. For recording I use an expensive 7.1 system. When I play, or jam with others at my home I use a Roland 550, I would buy the parts to build a leslie but can not find everything I need. Leslies can be adapted real easily to be used with b411, but purchasing a single manual Hammond or, one of the others seems to be just as good. I've only played on a single Hammond.
nukeys.

 

Obxwindsurf, is the last part of this name related to a windsurfing past time? I used to windsurf, did it for ten years ending up with only short boards and tiny sails.
I went to your site and would really like a copy of your plans for building a leslie. You have a very nice setup, and have done an outstanding job building, it looks just like one of the eight I had during the late 1960's. I do wish I could afford your stand setup, I am on disability and almost have no money to play with.
I've been playing keys longer than forty years since I was eight, I do not play in bands any longer as I've had three severe car accidents that left me with a severely messed up back.
I build acoustic guitars now for a hobby now along with others. Back in the 1970's when not teaching music I was building custom drum kits in California. I lost everything in one of the Sierra forest fires.
nukeys.

 

yep, nice project, windsurf. I came across your homepage some month ago.
Why didnt you cut real louvres ? ;-)
I would love to build a cabinet like that, including louvres of cause.

respect.
borntob4

 

Nukeys,

Yes, it was related to windsurfing in the Outer Banks I did a number of years ago, and also a couple of times in Hawaii before deciding that kayak surfing was more my style.

Regarding plans for my Leslie - the web site is the best source of plans, per se. Beyond that I don't have any plans. Recently the relay system documented on the web site has been replaced with solid state relays. The primary driver for this was that one of my mechanical relays stuck and resulted in the main fuse blowing so I had to replace them - I figured it was time to go to a low noise switching setup (no switching spike, due to relays disengaging when the line voltage crosses to zero).

Beyond that, it's all standard Leslie parts and since this is the third one I've built over the years - all the details I encountered during building are there.

Thanks for the compliments!

 

Louvers require a special tool fit to a circular saw and cuts on both sides of each piece of wood. I didn't have the tool so I had to improvise and insure that the cross section of my slots was the same area as those of the louvers of a production leslie. This is discussed in detail on my page.

Thanks for the compliment!

 

Windsurf, You have done an outstanding job of explaining exactly how you made the Leslie. Since you have a degree in electrical engineering knowing exactly what you were doing would be a given. You also explained what your ears hear pretty well in a long winded message to me. Yes, that was only a very small part of the curriculum I took. My master's thesis and doctorial desertation were both on two of the master's writing and playing skills. Master's meaning, Motzart, and Bach. I majored in composition which means I know how to write almost any type of music and conduct symphony's, and orchestra's. The instrumentation is quite different. Like you, I have also raised a family, only with out a mom. I have four children who are grown, I worked as a pro keyboard player most of my life and the kids were always with me.
Most musician's I've worked with never knew I had a doctorate in music, but they all always mentioned that I knew way too much and called me "doc". Whoopie!
I do not have the knowledge you obtain in electronics, I have a real hard time understanding that subject.
As long as know where a part is supposed to go I can build electronic things. I do wish I were able to work as I would find all the parts and build a leslie.
nukeys.