Sticky Request about Sound Quality Vs. Latency

Ive been reading a lot of non sense in the past weeks and month regarding which settings to use in Traktor.

I think a lot of people have a bad misconception of what is Latency and Sound Quality.

Thinking they can set the Quality to 96khz and have better sound while playing normal 320k or Waves files.

Same goes for the 24bit vs. 16bit.

Maybe we could put a sticky up with all the information needed.

 

why cant we? What should be in that sticky? Ask 5 pros and you'll get 5 answers.

 

Maybe they could put in an overview in general of what are the differences between Latency and Sound Quality.

I know that there is many different reasoning behind all of this, but in the end it all comes down to the same results.

96khz is a waste of cpu power, and 24bit is useless unless you recorded your tracks in 24bit period and even then, for modern EDM or Hip Hop even Rock there's no point and gains to export your tracks in 24bit mode.

 

+1
All the pros and cons.
Who will start?

 

Agreed, there are at least two fairly common misconceptions about the relation of sound quality and latency.

One misconception is that you can achieve lower latencies by increasing bit depth and/or sample rate. That, of course, is utter nonsense. I think the way Traktor and NI audio interfaces report latencies is partially at fault here.

Another misconception is that there are no benefits whatsoever from using higher bit depths and sample rates when your source material is 16-bit/44.1kHz. I'm not saying the benefits of going for, say, 24-bit/96kHz outweigh the costs but the point is, there are benefits such as higher-quality effects processing. (Costs include higher resource intensity, particularly higher CPU load, and possibly problems associated with upsampling such as aliasing.)

 

If you are doing any kind of processing to your signal (no matter what the source of it, be it a WAV or a 256kbps MP3), using 24bit will allow the computer the needed headroom (for dynamic range) and math-space (for lack of a better term) to crunch the numbers into something that sounds good. Running at 16 bit forces the computer to do all the math in less space, which means more rounding off, which means less accuracy. Some things, like distortion, can sound better applied in 16bit than in 24 bit, if you want a more digital, lo-fi sound. Most stuff doesn't sound better.

If you are running directly out from Traktor into an external mixer, and not applying any FX processes, etc, don't bother running in 24bit. Its not helping anything, other than making the computer and your audio interface work harder.

Sample rate - the Nyquist theorem states that it is only necessary to exceed 2x the range of human hearing in order to capture the entire frequency range. Even most clubs don't truly run a 20hz-20khz system, but 44.1khz exceeds the 2x range theory, therefore you never, ever need to set this higher. The only reason to ever use 48khz for your sample rate is if you are using audio from DVD, which you probably aren't.

As for folks who think that the 2khz tone from Traktor vinyl is somehow more accurate at 96khz, its not. 44.1k is already many times over what would be necessary to capture the entirety of a 2khz signal at ±8% on 33rpm and 45rpm. You gain no benefit.

 

I promised myself not to participate in these types of threads anymore because so much bs is written and there's always someone who fails to appreciate technical arguments. *breatheinbreatheoutwillnotrespondtobenspost*

 

Not sure how making this a sticky would help anyway. Nobody bothers to read them (or any other posts for that matter) before starting a new thread anyway. Just check for the large number of threads dealing with Jog Wheel issues in the S4 forum when there is a sticky at the top explaining in detail what the issues are and how to resolve them.

 

The problem with this kind of thing is that any discussion turns into a tech row.

 

^^^^see my reply above ;-)

 

Agreed.
But if there was a sticky about bits, latency etc. you could always link to that.
I'm sure somebody will read it or even help it.

 

I tried to explain things simply, but if you think what I wrote was inaccurate or misleading, please correct me, the whole point of the thread is to create a simple explanation for a very complicated set of questions.

 

I think the problem with this subject is there are a lot of people with some knowledge that think they have a lot of knowledge. I am happy to include myself in this category.

I would love to see something official from NI about this.

 

Quoted For Truth.

 

I am going to explain why I think a higher sample rate does mean higher sound quality when using Traktor. I would be interested to know where you disagree with me.

Firstly sample rate.

44100Hz means each second of sound is chopped into 44100 samples,
96000Hz means each second of sound is chopped into 96000 samples.

Obviously if the original file is 44100Hz and you play it without affecting the sound, it will make no diffference if you play it at a higher sample rate.

But that isn't what you do with Traktor.

Take pitch

If your source track is 44,100Hz and you play it at +4, in one second you will have:

44,100 x 1.04 = 45,864 samples

If you then play that out at 44,100Hz you lose 1,764 samples every second.
If you play it a high sample rate you lose nothing.

Is this what actually happens in Traktor? Maybe but I doubt it very much, I suspect that there are very complicated pitch bend mathmatics that generate a huge amount of extra information to make the pitch bend sound natural.

I would be interested to know what the audio enigine is in Traktor. 24 bit or 32 bit floating point maybe?

Lastly, I would love to be able to tell the difference between mp3 320 and wav and I have kidded myself that I can. But I tested myself in my home studio on the Adam A7 and sub 8 and I could not tell the difference when I A/B.

I can tell the difference with between 44.1 and 96 on traktor, in fact my wife can tell the difference A/B on my HiFi it is that clear.

I'm not looking for a fight, but I am interested in where you think I am wrong

 

Using maths to explain sound quality is never the best idea and I have no idea if what you are saying is the right thing but you're effectively saying you can hear a difference between a 44k file at 96k and a 44k file at 44k when the loss of information is minimal compared to that when compressing to mp3, but you can't tell the difference between wav and 320k mp3?

 

LOL - Music is art, sound is mathmatics.

Yes, when I play tracks in Traktor with the pitch effecting the track it is easy to tell the difference between 44.1 and 96.

I am not saying that it magically makes the sound better, I am saying that it degrades the sound less.
---

Ben, just to pick up on this point. I thought something was wrong so I looked this up:

"The highest frequency a digital system can accommodate is called the Nyquist frequency, and it is always half the sample rate... a sample rate of 44,100Hz can accommodate 22,050Hz"
Mixing Audio by Roey Izhaji Page 456

Acording to your 2x Nyquist Theorum you should go with 88.2KHz.

 

I can't say I've ever noticed a degradtion in sound when I move the pitch control but I don't use key lock or effects.

 

No, me neither. That isn't what I was saying. Like I said earlier I have a little knowledge, but I don't know the answer to this. But I the idea that the original is 44.1 therefore anything other than 44.1 is a waste is an over simplification as demonstrated by the simple maths in my earlier post.

I would really appreciate something from NI about this, but I doubt it is high on thier list of things to do.

 

Sometimes it's hard to hear the difference, and it depends also on musicgenre, but in general a wav has deeper bass(you feel it more at the same volume) more dynamic and less harsh in the midds.
At least that is my opinion when A/B.

Again it's hard to tell the difference, and you need some good gear to hear it.
I store wav's and convert them to mp3 for Traktor, which is good enough for me and I still think is a handy format.

Hmm I can't, can you explane what the difference is?