Successor of S4. Features.

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by Vyacheslav, Oct 6, 2012.

  1. Ricky Woofer

    Ricky Woofer Account Suspended

    Messages:
    1,056
    That first Pioneer midicontroller had the CDJ feeling but the layout sucked imo
    And like i said, the Denon i mentionend is as close as it gets to real vinyl feeling, remember CDJs are also just a substitute for my generation, they are good but far far to overpriced and still not a real TT for a oldie like me lol altho i love the cdj's ;) but i prefer the denon because its less than half the price and has that real vinyl touch


    Besides that i dont get a lot of points overhere.
    Like end of track indication. Hello thats on youre screen....
    Search forward or backword in a track. Hello turn that knob....
    Seriously?
     
  2. mindarelus1

    mindarelus1 Forum Member

    Messages:
    184
    Hello, I said after I load the track, I don't want to look the screen anymore :)
     
  3. Ricky Woofer

    Ricky Woofer Account Suspended

    Messages:
    1,056
    You want all of that on the controller?
    Like that Numark with a build in screen on the controller? That would loke dope to me
     
  4. mindarelus1

    mindarelus1 Forum Member

    Messages:
    184
    After I load a track in the deck I need to see these things (and I don't want to see them on the screen):

    1. Pitch % (Not the BPM, but it would be nice to have option to toggle between both).
    2. Some indication of where I am in the track length. So elapsed time or remaining time is a good solution.
    3. Better VU meters with Green, Yellow and Red parts, like on every decent mixer.

    That's all. I don't use SYNC, or effects, to blur my mixes. I believe good track selection and strong ABC mixing skills (beatmaching, EQ, etc.) is enough to keep people dancing.

    This is NOT what I get from Traktor. All the time, I need to have my head on the laptop screen, and I lose contact with the people on the dancefloor. Also, so many times I got the feeling, that I'm playing with some toy because of this reasons. Actually, I think I'll just sell the s4, and I'll go to external mixer + Audio NI6 + timecode vinyls. Maybe even go back to cdjs and external mixer. Because the controllers still feel like toys. Although s4 for me is the best traktor controller on the market.

    After all we are DJs, we are not musicians. People come to listen and enjoy music, not effects nor samples and stuff. It's ok to do something once in a while, but my rule is less is more for this things.

    If NI starts to listen to their clients and make a s4 mk2 with these things posted in this thread, maybe I'll change my mind, but for now, it just doesn't worth it.

    Don't get me wrong, the software is still good and have a lot of potential, but I just think NI go to different direction that is not DJ oriented, it's more musician, or remixer oriented. It's ok to have this things, but at first, make it a good substitute of a cdjs + external mixer, and then add complexity. After all, simplicity is beauty.

    P.S. Of course this is only my opinion, I know a lot of people enjoy the s4, especially people that can't beat match by ears.

    P.S. #2 I appreciate what NI did, it's a lot of work, and the goal of this post is just to help to make this good product to be great.
     
  5. NReek

    NReek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,224
    If you feel you're losing contact with the music and/or the people because of using a controller, it'd probably be better if you choose an existing and well consolidated route towards a more old-school mixing style (DVS) than expecting a company like NI to modify a whole plattform, doing steps backwards somehow, to do "recreate" what the competition is already offering, again, somehow.

    However, you'll probably have to carry your own turntables to wherever you play, they're becoming harder to find in a club everyday.

    Or, you can purchase a pair of cdj nexus and a djm 900. they have pitch %, track lenght, and all you're asking for. You can even use a pen drive and leave the computer at home. But their price is 6 times higher.

    Don't get me wrong, i'm with you in the boat of getting better visual feedback, for example with a colorful VU-meter. But i'd be happy just having them on the computer screen.

    I pray they don't take out the jog wheels in the next S4-like controller...

    I don't know, mindarelus1, maybe you've chosen the wrong setup, given your preferences?
     
  6. mindarelus1

    mindarelus1 Forum Member

    Messages:
    184
    Well, I'm not against where the product is going. I just think there are really simple things that can be added, and everyone could be happy. Both the oldschool djs, and the djs that like to make mashups and so on.

    Come on, how hard could be to add +-888.88 % indication for pitch/bpm, on the screen, they did it for the loop size. Or +-88:88:88 elapsed/remaining time indication? Or dedicated pitch range select button?

    I mean, even the CD players in the early 90s had this.. This is the basics.. I don't mind adding new stuff, but at least make sure the basics are there.
     
  7. NReek

    NReek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,224
    Well, speaking of basics, the loop size display is really basic. Helpful, but basic. Just a 2 digit display.

    To represent what you say, you'd need at least 3 displays like this, able to hold the 3 separate values: loop size, pitch value, remaining time.

    Reaching this point it may be easier and cheaper to put a "simple" 2 line lcd display per deck, that can hold this or that info (depending on each one's preference), and to select what to display could be chosen as we do nowadays for the info we see on each deck's header, on the computer screen.

    BTW, slightly off-topic but, have you guys seen how the DDJSX handles loop management? It's simply awful. You have to use four tiny buttons instead of the (in my case, beloved) "twistable nipples" we have on the S4. You don't have size feedback on the device anywhere, and neither on the computer screen. It's the messiest thing i've ever seen.

    In that sense, i'm thankful for the forward-looking solution NI provided (3 years ago already) with these knobs, to enable, set size, move... I can't see a better way to handle loops after using this!
     
  8. mindarelus1

    mindarelus1 Forum Member

    Messages:
    184
    I agree with you for the loop implementation. s4 has the best and easiest loop implementation, I've seen. This should stay the way it is in s4 mk2 :)

    Well, what can I say, I really like some of the things in the current controller. These are the jogs, the loop, the build quality, the size of the controller. Faders, and EQs - awesome. I hope all of these, stay the same in the next controller.

    What I don't like is:
    1. load and deck C(D) buttons - they are too small. Load buttons, should be for all 4 decks on logical places. (no need to switch in browse mode).
    2. you can control only 2 FX units at once.
    3. the gain is not good, like this, because no visual cue where you are - you have to watch the screen again.
    4. The other missing visual information, that I already described in my posts above.

    Anyway, it is still the best controller out there for Traktor Pro. Let's hope the next one will keep everything good from the old one, and add what's missing, to make it great.

    P.S. LCD screen will make it worse, if they implement it like the loop will make it look better.. It's like better fashion to be with segments. It looks awesome the way it is. :)

    How can this be implemented:

    1. Make smaller or remove ON AIR and SAMPLES indicators, and 0% Offset buttons - These are never used.
    2. Extend the screen to cover the space from the buttons.

    and now you have enough space to put the BPM and the Time visual segments.
     
  9. mindarelus1

    mindarelus1 Forum Member

    Messages:
    184
    By the way, speaking for tiny buttons - the FX buttons should be larger! At the moment it sucks.. It could be better.

    Actually I think these days to play with Photoshop and to do a screen shot of what I imagine to be the perfect s4 mk2 controller. Actually we can make a thread and post similar screenshots, and let's hope NI will take a look and try to please more of their customers.
     
  10. NReek

    NReek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,224
    No! I use them constantly, probably once every two or three songs. :cool:
     
  11. Ricky Woofer

    Ricky Woofer Account Suspended

    Messages:
    1,056
    Cool idea! Would love to see what everybody comes up with :) looks like fun to make one myself to
     
  12. mindarelus1

    mindarelus1 Forum Member

    Messages:
    184
    Yes, when I'm ready with mine, I will create a thread :)

    Another thing - the two Load buttons, and deck C/D should be larger - there is enough space, where they are.

    DJs don't like small buttons! I guess this is something not only NI, but every company making dj stuff should know.
     
  13. mindarelus1

    mindarelus1 Forum Member

    Messages:
    184
    how? :)
     
  14. NReek

    NReek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,224
    for example, whenever i make a drastic tempo increase or decrease to match the next song's original tempo, in order to keep the mix in sync having both tracks on air while making the tempo go up.

    figure out a mix where the current track is 110 bpm and the next is 130.

    i have the pitch set in relative mode, i make use of shift+pitch to move the current track's pitch fader all the way up without altering the current tempo, sync the next, hit play, then increase the tempo of both tracks together, smoothly going from 110 to around 130. once the next track is alone, i use to press the reset button to let it go at it's original tempo.

    i do this for two main reasons, one, i like to respect somehow the original tempo in which a song has been done. i try to force it only while doing the mix. second, i'm not sure of this one, but playing a song at its original tempo shouldn't trigger the key lock mechanism, thus making the song sound slightly "crisper".
     
  15. mindarelus1

    mindarelus1 Forum Member

    Messages:
    184
    I don't see what's the problem with this.. and how you use these buttons.

    Anyway, a RANGE button (on the place of these buttons), and you won't need to use the shift and relative mode anymore. And you'll be able to achieve this tempo shift even better.
     
  16. NReek

    NReek NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,224
    i have no problem with how it is right now, just the opposite. i find it useful, and i take advantage of it, that's what i meant. i jumped in defense of these two buttons functionality, and i hope they don't take'em out in the "S4 mk2".

    without further mess, let's say i just have the fixation to play tracks at their original tempo and these buttons are handy to do that.

    for the range issue you describe, i am about to give a type of answer that i usually dislike, but sometimes... there's nothing more :/

    you could change the functionality of those buttons via mapping. if you want them to modify the pitch range (+-6, +-8, +-30... you name it) it should be doable already.

    cheers,
     
  17. markino2003@mac.com

    markino2003@mac.com NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    308
    The S4x of my dreams!

    In my dreams, the great-grandson of the S4 shouldn't be too different, but should have two really important things:
    1. a more powerful headphone output
    2. A USB3 or Thunderbolt connection or, even better, both. That could reduce the latency problems maybe.
    I'm using the S4 almost every night since I bought it 1 year ago and I can tell I have many problems with the headphone level that is incredibly low.
     
  18. tmccoy

    tmccoy Forum Member

    Messages:
    2,005
    2x USB port hub like the Z2 as most MacBooks only have two ports, and in a common S2/4 + F1 setup, when you need to plug in a USB drive the F1 gets dropped.
     
  19. Vyacheslav

    Vyacheslav New Member

    Messages:
    5
  20. markino2003@mac.com

    markino2003@mac.com NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    308
    This machine doesn't make any sense, it's ridiculous and I'll explain you why in two points:
    1. It's huge, you'll never find enough space in the dj booth to put it. At this point I prefer use 2 CDJ-2000 and a DJM.
    2. There are too many flashing lights (this is the classic trick to lure boys), you will be dizzy and with a headache after 10 minutes.

    I think the new S4 doesn't have to be bigger, it would be a mistake, I use it when I work as guest and very often I have limited space, a bulky machine would be a serious problem.