Suggestions for "Controller of my dreams"

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Looks like you’ve put a lot of thought into this, mate!

I like how you mentioned specifically that small jogs are important to to you.

Made me think that, maybe, we need 2 types of jog - the small type that you like/need, and the bigger type that scratchers like. Right now, they’re just all grouped together as jog wheels, but small/large type jogs are used very differently.

 

haha) it drove me crazy for about a year, I decided to share it with others, because I could not stand it anymore))

 

Yes, and you know, I don’t know a single scratch of a DJ who would use plastic jogs for these purposes. If the DJ decides to scratch, he goes and buys a turnable. I once saw a model from Denon with a small vinyl record on top, it seems it was Denon 5000,
and it looked and felt pretty much like a regular vinyl player, if possible. But as I understand it, all implementations of vinyl in modern controllers are almost never used. When after many controllers under $ 1000 I tried the Nexus 2000,
I thought, wow, why such big jogs, who needs it, although it is made for ergonomics and maybe designers better know. I personally feel comfortable using a medium-sized jog, as most controllers do. (DDJ 800, Traktor 4 mk3 for example)
I also turn off always vinyl mode.

I am close to the philosophy of implementing this on S8, but the touch strip is still less convenient than a medium sized jog. The round arm element seems more ergonomic than a thin strip

 

s4 + 2xF1
or
s4 + 2xone k2
or
xone 96 + 2 sepaarte midi jogs ( i think behringer have them) + 2 k2 / F1
and add ipad or small screen on top

those will not have image in jogs... but i think is too small in 800 anyway

 

How will you use two F1?

 

I like the idea of the D2s, though I'd probably move the loop encoders to adjacent sides of the jog wheel, given the display in the middle of the wheels makes the ones on the S4 Mk3 template redundant. That way, you could spread out the cue button arrangement to take advantage of the spare room that would create.

I also like the idea of a F1 Mk2, though I'd probably call it a F2 to differentiate it more from the original F1, considering it's a significant design departure and would be much bigger than the original. Not much else to say about it.

 

Yeah, something like that. I was mainly thinking about the area around the jog wheel and if it could be utilised a bit better instead of having a lot of unused space, hence the idea to relocate the two encoders. Anyway, just a suggestion.

 

The prime 4 with traktor and motorized jogs like the S4 would be perfect.

 

I have similar designs in my “innovations keynote” (not good at photshop :V) but the lack of class compliance on NI hardware and the lack of turntable control on most similar remix apps (like Launchpad app) made me re-think things.

I wil love a standalone D2 (with pressure sensitive pads) including the scratchable audio (lack in Toraiz, djs1000, mc707...) and the looping mojo (lack in toraiz afaik but available at djs1000)... but in the end a D2, pt01, soundcard and my old late 12 mac mini (headless or used in junction with luna display and iPad mini4) could do the job and still being cheaper than Pioneer gear (it’s going lower as days gone but still over 600€...)

I have also other ideas involving jogs and pads or even s2mk3 hacks... and just yesterday considering building a wordpress just as “bitacora’s book”.

Nice to see similar concepts from you Almaz, shame NI seems sleeping on Traktor once again...


Edit: I forgot to mention that I also have an Rc505 after years of fiddling with iPad Looper apps which btw are amazing and in some fronts even better than the Roland... but not standalone hardware even if you repurpose old iPhones just for looping duties and so. There's a point where you should "crystallise" the workflow and cut some corners to flexibility to make things work "easy".
My first cut in the workflow is that "turntable control" so, solved that "problem" lots of solutions arise and Traktor becomes irrelevant (UI makes the Luna display + iPad a bit odd, tested) and the lack of true controller for the loop recorder and remix/stems decks as a workflow makes it a "too expensive, too complex (mappings etc)" solution to end just making live looping backing tracks.

All those concepts we share blur the lines of djing which most djs avoid and shown "it's a niche" when these features fail and made NI discontinue them (S5, D2...) and relaunch the S2/4 with different target in mind.

Aside note I will point you an amazing hardware builder doing controllers on this POV that maybe suits any of your needs.
https://www.underdogmodshop.com

 

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Kalo come here too.

Almaz S8 is more than enough or 2 F1 if you prefer more pads IMO...

 

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good work on the controller, for me though the perfect controller would be something like the ddjrz or ddj1000 running traktor "4" with everything that is missing and channels 3 and 4 eq section controlling the neural mix.

adding all those buttons and stem control to put a dj mix together is not djing for me, you might as well get into ableton and producing than doing it on the fly imo.

the human brain can only sequence so much before the mix becomes looped to death or non standard musical flow hence the reason nobody in the wild uses 4 decks for actual mixing or at least from what i have seen.

 

Almaz the song parts are up to down not left to right so you only need 2 rows and 2 arrows to play. In the F1 you can switch banks going by 4 up to down... even stems are 4 tracks, spleeter is 4 tracks... you can arrange 8 clips as whole (like Launchpad controller) or 2x4 like S8.

I like those controllers but as andyfoz pointed that's more into live producing than djing and that's not what Traktor users seems to want (the stem debacle itself and the return of the jog). That's more suited for Maschine (Jam) and the usual workflow was just export your tracks into Remix decks or Stems...

I'm not saying "it's wrong", I'm saying "keep it simple" since there's few adoption "as is" to even increase the "abletonization".

OTOH what you described with cues as a grid is what Kalo and some DJPP users where proposing even there's not flux between channels in stems (AFAIK) but let you build stems with loops so you can use as backtrack loops for other songs or a pseudoremix deck for non-linear creators (as myself) so you can build song performances from loops, jumping between loops in sync (and keeping the turntable action you can't in Ableton or similar tools including Maschine).

In the end, or better said in the first step, we should think in final user and uses... I can imagine some "professional uses" for the workflow described by Kalo (and barely introduced by me to this and the other post) more than just remixing.

I will love to record a video explaining creative and professional use of those features (available) but my concerns are more related to future... it doesn't seem we are going to gig soon... so other priorities get on top of tinker too much into these. In fact if you remove the "turntable control factor" from the equation you have lots of tools that make what you want in easier ways such Prime:loops arranger app, Multitracker app or even band-in-a-box... to name dedicated ones and also loopers like GroupTheLoop or the Rc505 itself used properly (not like the 99% of people using it)... talking about performing songs with structure of course. If we are just dabbling then even sync is an "issue" for some landscape looping approaches and particular POVs.

I will put this as examples:

GroupTheLoop (GTL) Looper:


(old) Launchpad app with launch controllers. Some of them with 1x8 or 2x8 (like the S8 if you use 2 decks)


Look into the first 10 minutes where you can see the old iPad app with multiple launch controllers (new app and new controllers has some differences if someone it's interested ask me for details)

Prime:Loops app.


You can see the multiple cueloop approach and one of these professional uses I mentioned (used by performers in different forms)

So there's no true need for 4x8 or 8x8 grids aside live acts which btw aren't so popular outside people like FKJ in performer perspective. Live act performers have Ableton and Push (or Akai Force) and there's another group of users doing live with MPCs and M+ (someday) with just 4x4 and looping or workarounds... that's why I said "S8 with pressure sensitive pads maybe..." but even a F1mk2 with some improvements... but you know what? Launchpads has sensitive pads nowadays and are cheap af...

I will love to see improvements in that direction from NI but I will not hold my breath. I have enough wearing a f###ing mask...

 

The one I purchased with improvements. Is haptic feedback the new stems? Amazing ideas with zero follow up.

 

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I got it but you can do it with less pads as I pointed in the launchcontrol video. It’s a matter of organization... but if you want 8x8 just get a new launchpad and map it to remix decks / stems decks cuelooped

As long as you try it you will notice there isn’t too much room for grow so pads will get too much space on the surface.
(4x4)*2 (2F1) seems the best choice for that into my eyes (even I prefer the 2D2 layout...)

It’s more or less the difference between Akai Force and Mc707 approaches.
There’s also the Electrix Tweaker or the Maschine Jam (and some livid) with 4x8 grids but never took off in adoption rates. I have a samson conspiracy for the same reason (but I rotste it 90º to get 4 faders up like F1)