Suggestions for new plugins

Changing dynamic range is primarily here to help Pianoteq respond better to your MIDI controller.

Pianoteq doesn't use a lot of RAM since it doesn't use samples (except for key and pedal noises and such), so an instance is around 100 MB of RAM. Most of processing is done by CPU, and it's good to have a multicore CPU because Pianoteq uses that to its advantage.

 

KONTAKT as an effect PLUGIN

Thanks for your reply.
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I know this will make you laugh, Evil Dragon, but Vintage D can be integrated into KONTAKT, and I always thought, that I have to use either the reverb´s of Vintage D or the reverb of a different plugin or Hardware reverb- I do not like the reverbs of Vintage D.

After 1,5 months I have realized that I can also use every plugin of KONTAKT for my Vintage D plug in... lol
and I love the convolution reverbs. You learn every day, every day you learn...
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But you can also use the effects of KONTAKT with other plugins, e.g. Pianoteq.
If you record a piano track and save it as wav file. Just drag it into mapping Editor of KONTAKT and you can apply every effect of KONTAKT !

Now I also have a new PLUGIN for my acoustic Nylon guitar - that´s just great !

You could use KONTAKT even as a MIXING TOOL:

If you have recorded let´s say 15 Audio tracks in one song.
Create 15 new instruments in Kontakt, and drag every single Audio track to one instrument´s mapping Editor.
Then just apply the effects you want EQ, Compressor, Reverb whatever !

 

You can do that. And you can also completely disable ANY of Kontakt's effects and use any other VST effects you want. There are better reverbs than Kontakt's algorithmic reverb (i.e. Valhalla plugins), and there are better IRs too (Altiverb, QL Spaces, Vienna MIR...)

 

yeah, there are better reverbs, but it also depends on the price, too. Altiverb is pretty expensive, but very good.
But I like having almost everything I need in one plugin (compressor, eq, reverbs etc.) in a pretty good Quality. As for mastering and final-mixing there are better plugins of course.
And I do not want to sell my TC Hardware reverb

and for the most part of KONTAKT´s convolution reverbs I agree with you ! There are better ones, but the digital reverbs sound very good to me, also some drum reverbs and filters, then you have for percussion Transient Master, the great Tape Saturator and some more interesting stuff - not too bad.
This is a Native Instruments Forum, and one secret of NI´s success is not really a secret, it´s the price.

 

One does not simply sell his hadware TC reverb.

 

PIANO Plugins

I have finished testing Pianoteq now. I was really thinking about buying it, but there are some reasons for me I probably won´t.
The first reason is the fact I am pretty content with Vintage D, although I would like to have Ivory II, as well, but my laptop is not good enough to make Ivory II run without any problems and that´s one of the biggest problems of Synthogy.
The second reason is the fact that the sound of pianoteq does not please me, because there is a certain lack of realism (every plugin is faced with this lack !) that I do not like, it´s a kind of artifical twang. Although most piano plugins do offer not more than 16 velocity levels, the fact that Pianoteq offers 127, it is not a noticable advantage of Pianoteq in practice; I expected a huge difference.

So I am not sure if Pianoteq would be a good choice für people wishing to have a satisfying plugin for classical or jazz peformances.

You can do a lot of tweaking and there are nice effects and the fact it does not use a lot of RAM and only 20 MB installation size and the opportunity to expand by installing available add-ons are interesting features, though.

 

I can't believe you're not feeling the continuous velocities. It's a HUGE difference for me!

 

Listened to some demo's. Synthogy demo's don't really impress me but the Vintage D sounds great

It can also be NI's Steinway model you know, I played at different ones at the conservatory and didn't like half of them
Don't you like the Bechstein?
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That's funny, never thought of that xD
Most FX in Kontakt (they're not plugins) are also available outside Kontakt with more options, in Komplete. That way you can also use similar FX while you're playing.
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Reflektor in Guitar Rig and the reverb ensembles in Reaktor sound really good too.
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I agree. You can hear in the decay of the tone it's not a recording of a real piano, just some algorithms making the sound. In a real piano decay there's so much going on, even sample loops ruin the feel. I don't know how Pianoteq does it but it's only slightly better then PCM synthesis. Without the FX the sound is nothing
I prefer to sit inside the piano sound when I play, not a distant sound with a lot of reverb to make synthesized sound more like a concert grand in a concert hall.

Do you have a comparison EQ? I use it often in Logic, if you don't like the "sound" of an instrument but you like the playability, you can play the same midi file in two virtual instruments, capture the sound spectra and then make the one sound like the other

Does the Vintage D also have automated filters per key? That's the thing I like most about the NI piano's, you can barely tell when you go from one velocity layer to the other.

 

Piano Plugins

Pianoteq´s velocity range is indeed a little wider, but only in the louder (FFFF - fortissimo) part, that´s not the way you make a piano better !
A piano is actually a Fortepiano or Pianoforte because of it´s ability to play very loud = forte fortissimo and very "piano" / pianissimo; now it is called piano, and I think the reason is you are able to to play things piano or a softer way, and the "pianissimo" range needs a little more attention, a more subtle way is much more important than to hit the piano with strong power like Mr. Beethoven did, and he destroyed some pianos - well, the pianos those days were not very good. People say no one could play the piano the way Chopin played with extremely subtle nuances, but they also said that he "only" played from PPPP to mf (mezzoforte), but within this range with more subtle nuances than someone who played from PP to FFFF. I tell you this example because you should be able to play PPPP with a piano and the Pianoteq makes you play up to FFFF, ok, but no PPPP, the Vintage D is ways better in the piano-pianissimo-velocity-range than Pianoteq, that´s why I prefer Vintage D. I know you can tweak velocity in Pianoteq, I did, and the result was good, but not satisfying to me. And the artifical twang Sound of Pianoteq I do not like, especially when I played a Nocturne of Chopin, I noticed it, and it does not sound naturally

I played a real Bechstein Grand once, great; I think Pleyel, Erard, Bechstein, Bluethner, Steinway, Boesendorfer and maybe three more have all very good pianos. I am not sure which one I would buy if I had the money, maybe Bluethner, it has a pretty warm sound, suitable for Chopin, or Steinway, more metallic sound, very good for Chopin´s Scherzos, hard to describe and hard to make up one´s mind. Ok, lemme take a Pleyel, Steinway and Bluethner Reflector is a very good plugin, I agree. E.g. the digital convolution reverb of KONTAKT called L300 Large Chamber with return settings at -16,8, is very nice.
I usually do not like too much reverb, too; the quality of a reverb is important and it just should be a kind of subtle addition to the main Sound; I ´d compare it to a suitable wardrobe one has to choose for certain occasions (e.g. opera, sports dress, leisure time style etc.); a suitable reverb for a certain music style. I dislike the reverb settings of Vintage D. Yes indeed, some reverbs in REAKTOR are very nice, REAKTOR is a very fascinating plugin, sometimes I think one could find every day something new in Reaktor, it surprises me each time I use it.
And I really do not want to compare and describe the Pianos of NI, it was already done; I know this is a NI Forum and NI has very good Plugins, but the piano Plugins are not good for classical or solo performance and I am not the only one who´´s noticed that fact. Google will tell you more I can not play more than 10 seconds with a NI grand piano (except the UPRIGHT Piano - good for Bebop), then I have to stop, whatever settings could be made.
I do not now if Pro Tools has a comparison eq ? sounds interesting.

There is a Pianoteq tutorial in Youtube with a Pianist called Hugh Sung, and he is so enthusiastic, and some items or threads in the web telling Pianoteq is way better than samples, and of course Pianoteq wants to convince people that they are the best, they want to sell their products ! And sometimes people just believe what other people say,words can have a strong influence on what people believe, that´s a phsychological matter, even after they will have tested a product, their judgement might be influenced by these words !
Well, people have different opinions and everyone has the right to like or dislike a thing; I am okay with Vintage D, Pianoteq maybe could be a good choice for modern production with electronic instruments, but I would never use a piano of NI, it is just not good enough for me.

 

I dunno about you, but I have absolutely NO problems playing ppp with Pianoteq. It's all about setting the velocity curve right to match your MIDI controller. There's plenty of detail in the decay (and it's different each time depending on which notes are played just like on a real piano, whereas samples will always play back the same decay over and over again, which is not realistic), it is much more detailed than any samples out there.

 

ok ! the Features of Pianoteq sound very interesting, but I play a piano with my fingers and hear the sound with my ears. Vintage D is by far not perfect, but I prefer playing with Vintage D and I hear a better sound with Vintage D, that´s all I can say. Besides, a good piano should offer one important thing ! and that´s ONE good piano sound, only one would be perfect, no matter how many features, they really are not so important to me. That´s just what I think. Load a piano plugin and immediately start playing and enjoy

 

Or
let me explain the difference this way:
pppp
ppp
pp
p
mp
mf
f
ff
fff
ffff
Pionoteq starts at ppp next step is p
Vintage D starts at pppp next step is ppp next is pp next is p.
Pianoteq is better from mp to ffff, but in general a little too artificial.
Of course there are also some more steps in between.
Maybe an update of Pianoteq sometime will improve the steps from
pppp to p and they should get a handle on that artificial twang.

And one important thing is that I am used to play Vintage D now, and I
know how to handle its strenghts and weeknesses, to play with Pianoteq
is a different feeling - I would not even say worse, but different.

I also get in trouble when I play a real piano (about 6 times a month); since I play much more
my Vintage D at home, I have to get accustomed to a real piano, and I need about half an hour,
but then it is ok. It´s of course also a matter of the keys of the keyboard you have, it took me many years to find
one 88 keys masterkeyboard that would please me. Of course the best choice would be a digital piano for classical
performance (Kawai or whatever), but I wanted a keybord for playing all kinds of instruments: drums, Percussion, organ, synth, bass etc.
and with a digital piano I can not play drums, synth bass or organ very well; so I was testing different Keyboards and finally I had made
up my mind and my choice was and still is Yamaha S80 - I like the Keyboard, it´s a pretty old Keyboard and has not even halfpedaling,
but I play it for many years now and I love almost all the e-piano-sounds, they are just great. I have 4 sliders and 5 knobs to send
or assign midi control Messages, that´s enough for me. I also have a KORG DS-8, that I play sometimes.

 

Give it up ED, two piano players against one

Same decay over and over isn't natural, but playing a piece that has many repetitions of the same long note in the same velocity doesn't happen often. As soon as you hit another layer you got another sample.
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The S80 is GREAT. I play a Doepfer LMK2 myself.

 

Hey guys, can you try this New York Grand patch?

https://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=kontaktuserlib&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=12987

 

It's still not natural enough and I can feel it. Try Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2, for example. All those repetitions sound MUCH more natural with Pianoteq than with any other sample library I've tried. And I had my share of tries!

 

what page? I'm not going to try that whole darned thing xD
Just tried the start with the preset I linked to, doesn't bother me.

Can't compare with Pianoteq right now, I'm busy installing all my stuff on the MBP I just got. ED, I did look at a windows laptop second hand to save me some money, but didn't know which one to get Too much choice and most already had Win8. Too much trouble.
This MBP is four times as fast with Kontakt though, compared to my iMac. SSD drive, woot!

I noticed that the "NY Grand with Overtones" preset has the LP smoothing off by default even though the script interface says it's on. You need to click off and on again to turn all these LP filters on

 

Hungarian Rhapsody!, wasn´t that piece written by one of the biggest admirers of Chopin ?, the one who wrote the first biography about Chopin to show the world that he was his friend, well, I would not call that relation friendship, cuz that guy thought of nothing but himself as far as I remember, a boring womanizer, a performer or monkey, a wannabe Paganini, exercising even when travelling on a silent keyboard, yes and Chopin dedicated his Opus 10 to him, it was a made-to-measure composition for him, unique and unbelievable and so hard to play, and it was the 1st time that guy could not play a Piece immediately, you did not see him for months, he had to exercise a lot, but in the end Chopin praised his efforts ... I read so many books about him, but I can not remember his name ? well, that´s not so important I will NEVER be able to play Opus 10,2, I play some pieces of Opus 10, but Nr. 2 is a ? I ve even managed Opus 66, but Opus 10,2 is maybe only for people that were born on a different planet.... AND I know...

 

This thread is going places.

 

Liszt !

Oh, now I remember, his name was Liszt !
He wrote in a letter about Chopin:
"no one compares to him: he shines lonely, peerless in the firmament of art"
Sorry, I am not in the Chopin-Forum here, got to Login there bye

And I am pretty sure, Liszt would prefer Pianoteq !

 

xD
So you also know that at the end of his life he completely changed. He started composing introvert music, getting close to a mix of Skryabin and Satie. I care much more about that work then the shallow stuff he wrote earlier

Gotta agree with him on Chopin though. Wanted to play the fourth ballad so bad, couldn't get past 70%.

Louis Andriessen once pissed off Theo Loevendie (two famous contemporary dutch composers, in case you don't know them) by saying: Wagner? Wagner? I would sacrifice the whole oeuvre of Wagner for just on bar of Chopin xD