The NKS Standard and Users

Bump!

 

I can't believe these things are still not possible!

There is so much to like about the KK environment but the more I dig in to it, the more I see just how half baked it is.
So much promise that is unrealized.
It's funny because I almost never feel this way about a product. I am usually very content to accept whatever limitations there are and move on.
But there is something about Komplete Kontrol that just makes me feel somehow cheated. Like there is this beautiful facade that you are sure is filled with treasure but inside it is mostly hollow.
It is a mirage! And yet I can't stop letting myself feel enticed by the illusion.

So, I guess what I am saying is, please Native Instruments, listen to the abundance of user requests and suggestions and fill in the gaps on what could be an amazing platform!

 

I started a petition to request that NI allow access to the NKS SDK to the public:
http://chng.it/mHSjH44S

 

Let me guess: all it requires is a valid e-mail address which will get collected and sold so that we get to enjoy even more spam? I've become quite weary of that stuff and because of that stopped taking these things seriously. If you use your real e-mail address (which would also proof to N.I. that it's you) you risk getting extra spam in your inbox. And if you use a temporary e-mail address.... then it could just as easily have been someone pretending to be you.

These things are a joke IMO because they're always abused to get more spam into our mailboxes, no thanks.

(edit): It would be a different story if you'd use Google forms, there's still some kind of big brother involved, but hardly as intrusive as all those alleged "free" poll sites which are basically spam magnets.

 

So I finally saw the thread... wow, it's been a while since this started.

Alas... I started using Maschine & Komplete last year (though I did already have a few instruments & effects) and of course Maschine also introduced me to the NKS standard.

Which then begs the question how Freelance Soundlabs did all this? I'm assuming they purchased the SDK or something similar, but even so this does come to show us that it's not fully impossible.

But on the other hand there are also big names which actually do support the standard. iZotope's Ozone has become pretty much a defactual standard on the topic of mastering and I can control Ozone 9 from behind the Maschine with ease. And of course there are several other big names as well.

The fun thing is that I participate in 3 different communities because my home studio consists of three main environments. And what do you think Ableton, Reason Studios and Native Instruments have in common?

They all provide a closed market for 3rd party vendors to sell their plugins (or sample collections, effects, etc... you get the idea) for that specific market. Ableton provides Packs, Reason Studios provides Rack extensions and of course our own Native Instruments provides the NKS standard (partners). And... none of these vendors allows free access onto their market (though it's only fair to mention that the Ableton Pack format is easily accessible for hobbyists, but then again... it doesn't really add much, not in the way NKS or Rack extensions do).

Quite frankly I can understand their motivation quite well. Because if we try to look at this from their point of view then revenue is a big issue. Even more so considering the sad developments within N.I. quite recently. They invested time & money into this standard so why should they just give all of that away? It makes no sense to me when looking at this from their p.o.v. because.. what's in it for them?

Let's not lose focus here and remind ourselves that Native Instruments is still a company in the end and a company needs revenue and profit even more so. You don't get that by spending resources on developing a standard and then just giving it all away.

But don't get me wrong here... Switching back to me, myself & I again I definitely agree with the overall argument that it would be very useful if 3rd party developers would have an option to support the NKS standard. But I don't agree with the implications of your post: that N.I. should just give their NKS standard away "just like that".

I did some (brief) research and read the NKS format page. Yah, E 1.000,- seems quite steep indeed. But of course you get more than just an SDK, you're also provided with access to the N.I. distribution channels: you get your own software serial numbers, the software becomes available through Native Access, there's support to fall back onto... So from that p.o.v. the price makes sense to me.

Still... it would be nice if they would release a 3rd party SDK. I dunno, for the sum of E 100,- or maybe E 250,- (stretching it a little) you'd get access to the NKS standard (SDK), limited support and nothing else. That would seem fair to me... N.I. would still get something out of their investments and in addition there's a good chance that the NKS standard gets more widespread which also means.... free advertising.

 

A petition will make no difference, it won't make NI suddenly go "you know what, you're right we should give access to developer tools to everyone that has no idea how to use them...". There are valid reasons it is available to developers like most SDK and developer software is reserved for developers, the main reason is NKS is designed to have some "quality control" which I perfectly understand as you want the experience to be uniform. I have seen some NKS libraries out there done by users and they can sometimes be a bit of a mess in how labelling is done, how controls are laid out and how tagging is approached and as I discovered early on, without good tagging and management it becomes very detrimental to the whole system. I have studied the requirements and have tried to adapt things as much as possible to fit especially with having every library uniform in its tagging, controller layouts and artwork appearance and after many of the suggestions I made with tagging were incorporated into v1.5 of the NKS standard I barely need any custom tagging at all with most of it conforming tightly to the NKS standards directly.

To answer a few points in the above

The way I make NKS is through years of hard work and learning and fine tuning every single aspect of automation and coding. I have developed close to 1000 scripts by now, each one specific to each plugin to read preset names (direct from file, from the screen or from a list pulled from the manual...), save out a NKS file and tag the details (most tagging is done by hand using a specialised custom tagging keyboard I created using a Stream Deck). All I use to save the NKS files is Komplete Kontrol software with a dedicated UDF library I have created that can automate every aspect of the program from saving a preset to changing the labels on controls to tagging of files. This is FAR beyond what any "normal" user wants to be doing but this is the kind of work I do and having a mind for complex problem solving to figure out how the hell to get info out of a plugin where it seems there is no possible way is something I love to do, you have to have a mind for it.

Sound previews are done by automating Maschine to output a single audio group then progressing to the next file, pretty simple. The name of each preset is within the exported file name and a simple script cleans all that up and then a ffmpeg script converts to OGG after I do a pass in Wavelab to normalise with the correct lufs.

So basically, there is no simple way to make NKS files. I dont think NI have a majic tool to generate the files themselves that magically does it, many users have tried to make tools in the past to take on this task and have basically had to abandoned them because it is just complex. It comes down to no proper standards in the way VSTs work and I have come across a few VSTs that are simply impossible to make NKS or read the details from completely.

This is why I have been investing many hundreds of my hours tackling this because NKS is not being seriously taken on by developers for many reasons I have been discussing with them. The idea is a good one but only if enough plugins support it and it's something I have wanted since I started using VSTs in the 90s so I have dedicated my own time to trying to do as much as possible so others don't have to which has taught me a lot and helped me meet a lot of great people.

The reason I have been able to support so many plugins now is because of users themselves. I ask a small fee for each NKS library which I use to not just support hosting but also invest in more plugins based directly on user requests. Every request I get I log in a tracker and I am registered on a number of different plugin sites (Plugin Boutique, Dont Crack, JRR Shop etc) where I will watch these until I see a good sale. I also contact developers to see if they are developing NKS or would like NKS developed and try and work with devs as much as possible. Many want NKS but do not want to deal with the headaches around having to have it all approved and such so they are normally grateful to have it created for them.

In all reality from when I created this post my opinion has changed. NI need to work more with developers to make this happen so the developers can easily make their own tools for their plugins. Some plugins that are NKS officially include generators to make 3rd party libraries NKS but lack the sound preview. What NI should do is open up the bank editing and have a simple "generate preview" menu built into Maschine and Komplete so users can do a few small personal banks of their own if needed. Users really need to be contacting plugin developers and asking for this because at the end of the day the buck stops there. A lot of the response I get is developers have little to zero demand for NKS so it's not something they see as worthy of their time and not to forget, NI are a VST vendor in direct competition in some cases so this has been another expressed concern by developers.

 

Just wanted to say thank you for your hard work. You bring a colossal amount of value to the product line. Hope you're well!

 

Ditto JesterMgee, thanks for your hard work. You have great products.

 

Cheers guys.

Yeah i'm doing ok actually, thanks for asking. Hope all is well with everyone else. Been working on a number of new libraries at the moment, mainly UVI ones and working for an LA company "Basehead Inc" who provide sound database management software that I have been using for my field recordings for the last year, I now manage their support and am doing their training videos and such so that's keeping me a little busy in these strange times.

Going a little stir crazy having kids at home for 2 months straight and having to home school them but they have learned now how to program up Arduinos and how to apply some of their maths to calculate electrical components for circuits. They are only 8 and 11 but hopefully see the value in how maths applies to real world things. I share my studio/office with their computers so they are in the room with me for half the day until I kick them out.

 

Thanks for all of your hard work, I have alot of libraries from you, if it wasn't for guys like you or kymeia I would have sold off this controller ages ago.

 

t's amazing there in no batch conversion to NKS. There isn't one because they can't profit from it I guess. Doing it one by one is a huge waste of time unless you plan on selling them. We have computers so we don't need to do tedious tasks. NI only sees dollar signs now I guess.

 

NI should be embarrassed by this. They can recognize users presets from their own synths but no one else? What a joke.

 

You think what you want obviously, but this is not « now ». NKS has always been like this. Concept was somehow more about easy factory preset sbrowsing, not about making user presets banks in a comfortable way. It is useful, but yes, a bit frustrating.

 

Well put, sir! They need a million fingers for all of that pie. and is that even sanitary?