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The Traktor 3 Problem Compendium

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR 3' started by PhilL, Dec 28, 2005.

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  1. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,072
    OK, I trust everyone had and excellenmt Xmas and Santa gave you all kinds of goodness!

    Now though its time to start looking at Traktor 3 issues and I want to build a list of issues big and small to work out whats really important to the most people so this can be communicated back to Friedemann and the team so thhey can see whats what. Many are taking a well earned Xmas break so if we can have something of a list to point at by the 3rd of Jan. that would be cool.

    With that in mind, here's what I think is needed. A short summary title followed by a brief description of your issue. Please don't rate the problems severity (1-5). Be prepared to defend your assessment if needed. Lets stay focused strictly on the issues (to that end I will moderate if we drift or start blame rants). Comparisons to 2.6 are relevant if there are issues of lost functionality. If you want to lend your weight to an already noted issue please make sure you quote the message you are weighing in on.

    ============================================================================================
    To get you started Try these on:

    Traktor Startup hangs with an IPod Plugged in
    With an IPod Pugged in Traktor runs up to ~149MB ram and 50% CPU and does nothing even if left for 30+Mins.

    Wavform is not re-drawn and kept in sync with a Beatgrid in ACC files.
    If you skip forward and backward in an AAC file, then skip back to the beginning the Wavform is often out of position relative to the grid if you click on the beatmarker and restart the track will be out of sync with other decks. If you wind back and forward close to the beatmarker the track is redrawn properly and everything works properly. The Grid is staying in position but the wavform is offsetting when the above is performed. Also applies to some FLAC's, not seen with MP3's.

    Reverse Button is missing
    Traktor 3 no longer has the most basic reverse button.

    Playhead position indicator is fixed
    In 2.6 the playhead position indicator could be moved left and right in the wavform. Its no longer possible in T3. Its all the more important in T3 especially at lower screen resolutions (1024X768 & 1152X864) using the internal mixer and effects the user cannot even see 4 beats ahead of the play position.

    Knob and slider increment Sensitivity values are not saved between sessions
    If the user goes through and right clicks the + sign for each knob and slider and then sets the increment value, these values should be saved between Traktor sessions. At present any change made is lost when Traktor is closed.

    Traktor Stalls and often freezes when seeking in FLAC files
    When using FLAC files Traktor will often stall or freeze when user seeks back and forth in a FLAC file.

    Users should be able to collapse the mixer and decks to the left or right
    When working with low screen resolutions it is especially important to be able to instantly collapse the Mixer and or right or left decks to allow the opposing decks to stretch to full screen width.

    Deck Color and Details Panel Deck Assignment Colors should be MUCH more prominent.
    At present the color assignments are too discrete and should be much more prominent to reduce errors caused by 'region control disassociation'.

    Hotkey and Midi assigment assignment need to be able duplicate amd delete selected groups of entries.
    It should be possible to Highlight Multiple existing rows and duplicate or delete selected rows. It should also be possible to make multiple assignment changes at one time. e.. select four existing rows and change the deck assignment for all four at the same time.

    Each layout should have its own independent details panel assignment
    With the advent of deck specific details it should be possible to save seperate details panels setups per layout. It should also be possible to copy a details panel set from one layout to another.

    It should be possible to include two sets of details panels in a layout
    One details panel with 4 pages each above each deck pair. It would virtually eliminate the regional disassociation issues for users.

    All button presses originating from Midi Controls should properly illuminate the button.

    OSC control support is broken and needs to be fixed

    Broadcasting needs to support Shoutcast compatibility with MP3 as a stream format
    The present ICECAST Server only supports OGG. User should be able able to download the LAME Codec seperately from Traktor, place the DLL in the Traktor folder and use it to broadcast MP3 Streams.

    Implement Looping controls as a Mixer section item
    It can be fit into the effects slot in internal mixer mode or in its own slot in external mixer mode.


    ===============================================================
    This message will be updated with new and popular items as the thread evolves...

    Phil
     
  2. monkeybiz

    monkeybiz Forum Member

    Messages:
    168
    Some of GUI display features that I'd like to see replaced before I purchase the T3 upgrade:

    -Set Synch Phase button

    I use these two LOTS, and while I think I could eventually get used to a Tempo KNOB, these features from previous versions of Traktor exemplify some of the advantages of DJing in a digital medium:

    -Tempo Increment Adjust buttons (+/-)
    -Tempo Increment Digital Display (without having to hover the mouse over the knob, right-click, etc)
     
  3. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,335
    Remember, you asked.... Some of these may not be relevant as I don't have the patch yet (still demo), so I apologize if any are no longer relevant. I'll divide between function problems/bugs and wishlist stuff.

    Problems/Bugs:
    --Can't adjust key on a slaved deck
    --Browser icon doesn't indicate track being previewed
    --Inexplicable "select all" in browser section; all tracks selected haphazardly
    --"Loop Jump" is absolutely not the seamless remixing tool it is advertised and couldn't be used for live loop mixing.
    --Tracks do NOT autosync when using Loop Jump.
    --Delay FX memory cache contains sound from before activation & after deactivation, making precise use of delays nearly impossible
    --Deck BPM display doesn't show the track's BPM; it shows the currently playing BPM, which is available in many other places. Therefore it's useless. It should show track default BPM. At the least, it should revert to the track default when no Master Tempo is activated.
    --File Info display does not adjust for deck size and is nearly unreadable, esp. for the track title
    --"Reloop" doesn't work
    --Incremental xfader buttons don't work
    --"Round" in BPM section doesn't work.
    --Autorepeat on many knobs doesn't work. Also, amount of increment/decrement between "min" & "fine" is waaay too large--from impractically infinitesimal to unworkably coarse.
    --Current setup should save on close--and save ALL customized features. At minimum there should be a "snapshot" button somewhere to save.
    --Native Mix Recording really doesn't work beyond 20 minutes or so (no, I'm not talking about the demo shutoff).

    Wishlist
    --Master Tempo section should be collapsible/removable in any window
    --Key and Tempo increments are entirely impractical; it's nearly impossible to click & hold and have .1 increment/decrements. I'm finding smooth increase of bpm over the course of a set to be nearly impossible.
    --EQ kills on Xone:92 emulation
    --Snap to beat available on vinyl emulation. Clicking on a beat should move the cue to that beat. (I think "Mode" should be eliminated totally; go back to "snap to beat" or not)
    --Eliminate doubleclick function in browser title that removes info
    --Option to change from hundredths to tenths in BPM section
    --Browser: Restore "save" button (or add "save" option on right-click menu) to current playlist. The process for saving the current playlist as a new playlist is absurd.
    --Move the "lock" button" in the Loop section to the empty square in "Loop Set"--much more logical
    --Default in TKS should have the spacebar start the focused deck, not just Deck A
    --Metronome "tick" in BPM section should be a more distinct, higher-ping, a la Cubase (and every other damn metronome out there)
    --"Loop Select" is ridiculously inefficient design. Two buttons would do it: <--Loop and Loop--> to jump forward/backward to next loop. Otherwise, fixed buttons that jump to the corresponding loop, so that they could be played in any sequence. Selecting one from a pulldown is impractical, time-consuming, and certainly remix-inhibiting.
    --MIDI learn should be a right-click option a la Ableton Live (and a ton of other apps): select it on a UI control, activate the MIDI controller/keyboard control you want it to correspond to, and done. Fine-tuning (toggle,increment, etc.) can be done in the setup menu.
    --Details pages should be movable by drag & drop. (I think EVERY module should be collapsible/movable.)
     
  4. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,072
    Nice Work I'll have more later....
    One comment though... There are no EQ kills on a real 92 Xone 92. Is it Deficient? Maybe, but Traktors emulation model of the Xone 92 is very accurate and true to the real thing

    Phil
     
  5. HE2o

    HE2o Forum Member

    Messages:
    166
    Issue #1 (hey its a little late but....)

    In traktor 1.06 you could hit play and have the song start off the at the cue point then hit the cue pause and it would return to the cue point and stop. If you held cue pause down the song would return to the cue point and play as long as you held down cue pause.


    The same as deck cue/play instant and deck cue pause on traktor 3 but say if you assigned cue/play instant to bksp and cue/pause to alt bksp you could keep cutting beats in using cue/pause(alt bksp) and have the song cotinue to play until you release cue/pause(alt bksp) in traktor 1.0 if you released the alt key first while continuing to hold bksp then releasing bksp the song would continue on. If you do this in traktor 3 the song stops.


    This control function was lost when the traktor 2.0 update was released. I know this is a little confusing but if you were a traktor 1.0 user hopefully you will know what I'm talking about.


    Issue #2

    It would also be nice if you could work in vinyl mode and still drop a cue point that would snap to the beat grid.


    Issue #3

    How about a friggin brake. I (and others) have only been asking for this since feb 2002. Oh and it should be adjustable with a dedicated button

    Issue #4

    The key command from 2.6 that allowed the fader to be cut (0-100%) from one side to the other.

    Issue #5

    The ability to delete a song from the hard drive has been removed. You were able to do it in 2.6 it should be available in 3
     
  6. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,335
    I've posted elsewhere that I think it's a failure of imagination to slavishly copy the 92 instead of incorporating what's good about it into what's good about Traktor. The key word here is "emulation". Why should my kill buttons be rendered useless when I switch mixer emulations? At least give me the *option* of having kills.
     
  7. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,795
    First, I want to quickly mention that some of this is a re-post of earlier stuff, but I think it's in order due to the nature of the thread:

    • Jumping between cues not fast enough
    Just as in T2, there is a lag when jumping between cues. This is especially noticeable when the cues are far apart and it doesn't seem to depend on the speed of the system (at least not to a significant degree) as it happens on my brother's 1.5 GHz machine with 1 Gig of Ram and on my 1GHz machine with 768 megs of Ram. Nor does it seem to depend on processor load since it happens even with one deck playing. Alot of good "hot cues" do if the music skips when you use them...

    • Jumping between loops not fast enough
    Just like the cues, the loop jumping is NOT seamless (as boysteve pointed out).

    • Audio glitch when switching between FX
    I've tested this and it looks as if Traktor is actually stopping the playing deck for a split second. You can confirm this by loading the same track in two decks, syncing them up and then switching effects on one deck. Then, just check out the sync meter. You'll also hear an audio glitch much like the old "join bug" audio glitch.
    Update: this MAY have been fixed by the 3.0.1 patch.

    • Beat grids still shifting
    I've described this in depth before (under 2.6) and it's STILL happening. This is being discussed in another thread and Phil has now seen the problem as well.

    • Resource leak
    I know this is a hard one to track down, but Traktor is definitely getting bogged down after several hours of performance. I recently did a 5 hour set and it felt like the latency had increased from 20 ms to 200 ms over the course of the set.

    • Bitrate not displaying for AAC tracks
    This bug isn't a big one but it may be indicative of Traktor's issues with AAC (and may be related to the VBR nature of AAC). The bitrate displays at 0 Kbps for AAC files in the deck display.

    • Allow use of mixer controls in External mixing mode
    This is an especially annoying aspect of Traktor now that we've got 4 decks with a built in Xone. I would love to be able to assign decks A&C to one output channel (and B&D to the other), use gain and EQ for each of those decks via a MIDI controller, and use my existing two channel Xone to mix those sources. But as it stands, I'm going to either need to go all software and MIDI (which doesn't look like a viable alternative given the state of MIDI controllers) or ditch my 2 channel Xone and my FireWire audiophile and get a 4 channel mixer and corresponding audio card if I want four decks. It just seems kind of ridiculous that we're forced to make such a choice. Surely the technology is already in place to do this, and it's really necessary given the new features of Traktor.

    • No way to assign two decks to one audio output
    This is a reiteration of the previous but, but there SHOULD be a way to assign decks A&C to one stereo channel and B&D to another channel so those of us with two channel mixers can actually use four decks.

    • Eliminate the preview track in browser
    I mentioned this under 2.5 and I still think it holds true. Unfortunately, the amount of screen real estate that it takes up in the track browser got even greater with 3.0. How many people actually preview tracks in the browser? Maybe I'm alone here, but I think this is just a really stupid function that complicates things. I mean, if you were DJing on CDs or TTs, would you have an extra deck set up so you could audition your tracks. Of course not. IMHO it should be optional and the window associated with it should go away if it's off.

    • Small buttons in expanded browser
    This is a very minor issue, but for those of us with limited screen real estate, it means a few more lines in the browser. It would be nice if the small transport controls a la the collapsed deck view could be an option even when the deck was expanded. I never use the mouse for transport controls anyways (and I would guess that others are in a similar boat) so there really isn't any need for them to be very big.

    • Get rid of console and tool tips
    The console and tool tips window seems really useless most of the time. It should be movable like other windows or able to be turned off completely.

    • No editing of track names
    Although I would take the ability to edit track details directly in the browser (like iTunes) out all together (this is a PERFORMANCE software after all), this should be completely disabled when in Live mode so you're not inadvertently editing track names when you're trying to load a track into a deck.

    • No editing of star ratings with scrolling track pad
    This is kind of an extension of the previous but, when using the scrolling trackpad and the mouse is over the star ratings, the star ratings change instead of scrolling the browser list (like you would expect). Very frustrating. Is star a star rating something that needs to be selected with the scrolling trackpad anyways? I don't think so...

    • iTunes import status window
    Importing iTunes playlists is SLOW which isn't so bad in and of itself, however it would be great to have some way of knowing that Traktor hasn't locked up on you while it's doing this (like I thought it had the first couple of times that I used it). This is something that 2.6 had that has disappeared.

    • Deck Tempo Sync master MIDI command
    Is there a corresponding Deck Tempo Sync Master MIDI command (like the Deck Tempo Sync Slave MIDI command) because if there is, I can't find it. If not it needs to be there.

    • Beat offset meter dragging should be usable with scrolling trackpad & MIDI
    I just discovered that you can drag the beat offset meter and it basically works like the pin on a turntable. VERY COOL. However, this functionality should be usable with a scrolling trackpad and I would like to see the same basic functionality with a MIDI encoder.
     
  8. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,795
    I'd buy that for a dollar!
     
  9. HE2o

    HE2o Forum Member

    Messages:
    166
    Issue #6

    Mouse scratch adjustment.....I used the slower setting to spin a song out backwards since there is no friggn BRAKE (*Issue #3). I work in bars and dont have the luxury of staying in one type of music so I have the choice to slam the song in.... oh wait hmmmm I can't do that any more (*Issue #4) So you could spin a song out backwards err oh I cant do that any more either. Nice....nice.....oh I think dey like me....=)
     
  10. Charles Felicio

    Charles Felicio NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    98
    4 decks is great, but I would like the UI to be more "3 decks friendly", as 3 decks mixing is much more common than 4. Attached is an quick example of what would be great for FS2 users (specially if being able to use 3 real decks usin the extra output/input on Scratch Amp).
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Spielmann

    Spielmann Forum Member

    Messages:
    57
    As posted earlier and mentioned here again by monkeybiz, I'd really like to have

    The old Set Sync Phase Button back

    That's clearly the biggy for me. In addition, it would be nice if the headphone cue button and the EQ controls could be de-linked from the deck-focus.

    In 2.5, you can push the headphone cue button or mess with the mids on either deck and it will not switch the deck focus. In T 3 the deck becomes focussed whenever you touch these controls. That is a problem when you assign your midi controller to the transport controls of the focussed deck, like many will do to improvise with their controllers with insufficient numbers of buttons. I do so with my Contour Shuttle Pro. With a setup like this you cannot simultaneously trigger/loop a track in Deck B while adjusting the EQ settings of Track A. You always have to be extremely cautious that the right deck is highlighted before you touch your controller or you'll wreck the mix. Becomes increasingly difficult with each drink.

    The problem is that others will want the mixer to be be part of the deck focus in order to control the EQ with their knobs. I think it would be extremely helpful to make it a user-definable option if you want the mixer controls to be part of the deck focus or not.

    Spielmann
     
  12. slopes

    slopes Forum Member

    Messages:
    58
    Nice. way to get things started! Here's my issue/enhancement list (some items may have been mentioned)

    1. Add Key Signature. Although there is greater flexibility compared to T2 if you have a key defined, it would also be valuable to
    a)have a semitone snap function
    b)see the key letter in the deck's file info display

    2. Fix right click mouse functionality when browsing in the Track collection and the top category is selected, ie. Artists.

    3. Provide BPM info for Beatport analized tracks [EDIT = preview samples].

    4. Add Deck Tempo Sync Master midi control.

    5. Clicking the magnifying glass next to BPM returns everything. I would like to see all tracks with 130 BPM if you select on a 130 value. Alright, at worst all tracks from 130.000 - 130.999.

    6. Key fine setting is TOO fine. Need to click a bunch to make it turn a cent

    7. Fine sensetivity setting needs to be consistent with the decimal precision of the conrol. If its 0 move it by 1, if its 0.0 move it by .1, etc. Some controls are incosistent, master volume is a good example.

    8. Put back the Peak Autogain option. Perceived is way too hot sometimes.

    9. Set Beat Marker midi command does not snap to a bar while the track is playing. It should work the same as the Set Cue midi command.

    10. Add entire groups of midi/hotkey controls at once, like the EQ group for example.

    Thats it for now.

    Slopes
     
  13. mal1ce

    mal1ce NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    381
    Loop counter, I want it back. It's missing in 3

    Like others have mentioned, all settings should be saved on app exit.

    Import Date does not seem to be working in the browser

    I'll be in the edit screen for a file and won't be able to change anything. I can tab from field to field, or click in the field with the mouse, but can't actually edit the info. However, if I go back to the browser view, I can make changes there. This happens randomly.
     
  14. RufusWhite

    RufusWhite NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    457
    I'll second the import date not working...

    also I'd like the browser to return you to the exact point in the track collection you were at before you dragged a song to a playlist, instead of just dumping you back at the top of the list. v3.0 did this, but 3.01 seems to have lost the ability again. :(

    Oh, and make it so it doesn't "forget" about your midi controller...

    Also, why can't I "write tags" or "analyse" when working from my music folders (eg. browsing an album folder) in the browser, but I can do this on playlists?

    right-click delete still does not always work.

    The whole "renumber" thing seems convoluted and useless. If I order a list by another method to the one currently being used, I know what I'm doing, and I want the numbers to follow suit, not to have to do it manually.

    Likewise, playlists don't always seem to keep their order, sometimes I can put a playlist in order, switch to browse another playlist, then go back to playlist A and it will be in the original order... uh??

    If you try to export a playlist that only has one track in it (as in export the files themselves, or in this case, file) Traktor dies.

    I've noticed a couple of times when writing out mixes that the resulting wave file is at the wrong speed. Eg. One time Traktor reported that the resulting mix would be 62mins long. When loading into winamp (or any other audio program) the actual length was 67mins, the whole mix was pitched down. I had to re-pitch it using Audition.

    Also when going back to a mixfile, and pressing the record button, all the master/slave settings are lost, so the tracks go out of time as soon as you hit record.

    I'd love to have the graphs back for the T2 filter.

    When switching between different effects, the knobs retain the last used settings of that effect - but obviously the knobs on my midi controller stay in the same position.

    Can beat sync'd effects please tell time as a number of beats, instead of a %?

    as well as toggle/next/previous controller types, could we have a "cycle" controller type. For example rather than using up 2 of the valuble buttons on my controller to change effect using next/previous, can I just use one, and when it gets to the end of the list just carry on again from the start?

    Think thats about it for now...

    Ruf
     
  15. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,795
    Some GREAT suggestions!

    Rufus, could you elaborate a bit more about what Traktor is doing to you here? I had an experience where I was using T3 live for the first time and just picked up a M-Audio Trigger Finger. I was hitting some of the buttons in rapid succession and all of a sudden Traktor started setting loops (an adjacent pad) instead of cueing. Now, I thought it might have been me or, possibly some weirdness with the Trigger Finger, but my brother (who laughed at my trainwreck of a mix when it happened, BTW) had the exact same thing happen to him not an hour later. Now, I'm hearing about several MIDI issues and wondering if it wasn't Traktor having the problem (which would not surprise me one bit). Is your situation something similar?

    Yep. I agree. A feature I can't ever see using as well just sitting there cluttering up the interface.

    Oh yes! Forgot about that one. The graph in T2 was KEY to helping me understand how the filters worked. I had the same filters on my PPD-01 mixer and never used them because it just wasn't as reliable as being able to actually visualize what was going on with the effect. IMHO this was a BIG step in an area where T2 really had it right.

    I agree here as well. I understand the concept, but from a practical standpoint, it just makes things more difficult (especially since you can't assign a particular knob directly to a particular effect--which would be the only justification for doing this that I can see). Moreover, the effects ALREADY change state when you switch from one to another--they turn themselves off--which really violates the whole convention of having the effects retain their state when you switch between them. Until we get MIDI feedback (which I didn't even put down because I consider it basically a pipe dream at this point, although I would LOVE it), just make the knobs maintain their position.

    Yep.

    MOS DEF. That's what I'm saying!

    GREAT suggestions Rufus!!!
     
  16. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,335
    Wow, Rufus' list is great! I especially second the "cycle" request.
     
  17. slopes

    slopes Forum Member

    Messages:
    58
    few more before i forget

    11. Ghost-pointer functionality does not work correctly on the Phase meter.

    12. Provide sensitivity/speed control for the ghost-pointer. A good place to do this would be on the '-' of every knob. So you could instantly jump (current design) or fade into it.

    Thanks!
    Slopes
     
  18. other1

    other1 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    130
    Well what can i say? Not much, as everyone here is doing such a great job of saying things that I have had in mind and some of the few bugs I have found are already mentioned.

    But I would like to see the above quoted for 3 decks to be a possibillity and an even more customisable GUI, with some of the looks of 2.6 if possible, and it would be great

    btw Phil good idea on this thread =)
     
  19. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,335
    #1 priority: STABILITY. I didn't mention this because (a) I wasn't having stability issues, and (b) I was certain this would be a big deal on this thread. But for some reason things like Sync Phase Buttons are outweighing it. Since my initial post on this thread I've started experiencing audio dropouts and occasional crashes. I also agree there seems to be some kind of memory leakage; the longer I mix, the more it seems latency increases. Also, tracks seem to take longer to load as time goes by.

    Beatgridding seems MUCH more finicky in this version. I'm finding it much harder to align gridded tracks than in previous versions. The BPM Tick helps, but often it's hard to hear because the tone isn't distinct enough.
     
  20. sleizure

    sleizure Forum Member

    Messages:
    210
    I'd like to see a Traktor 2.6 feature come back.

    Ability to adjust loop size (1 4 8 16) via a knob on a MIDI controller. Some of us have liimted buttons or knobs and a simple twist of a knob to allow for 1 beat or 16 beats would be what would get me to move forward.
     
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