The Truth About Traktor Latency...Final Results \o/

I have an issue with Traktor Scratch Pro 2 A6...latency is way beyond useable as a scratch tool...here is the advice I have been given by NI support. My laptop is Windows 8 64bit i5 quadcore 1.8ghz with 6gb ram 750gb hd...which has no problems at all running maschine/ultimate/abelton etc.


I have to tell you a few facts about Traktor regarding latency.

[Edited]

 

My reponse...can't actually even believe it...gutted!!!

Hi Stefan,

Thank you for your quick reply. My laptop is a new i5 quadcore 6gb ram 1.8ghz 750gb hd and runs ,without issue or fault, Komplete Audio 6 soundcard/ Komplete Ultimate and associated componants/Abelton with it array of plugins.

The spec sheet of requirements given by NI is thus.



windows 7 or 8 (latest sevice pack32/64bit).

intel core duo or 2.

4gb ram.

http://www.native-instruments.com/e...ital-vinyl/traktor-scratch-a6/specifications/



My laptop is way more powerful but the latency is, at best, 4.6ms...this isn't even close to being classed as "pro" or capable of "scratching" "pro" routines...end of story...so it isn't fit for purpose...it simply isn't good enough to replicate the performances by any of the "pro" "scratch" DJ's featured in and that is just 1 example of an official NI release...go to 1minute in and tell me that 5ms latency will reproduce that degree of responsiveness...no chance mate. To achieve anywhere near this kind of performance, that would be "pro" performance, you would need to achieve latency of no more than 2.5ms and also be able to play without audio dropouts or gliching.

This product is not fit for purpose.
Kind regards but very disappointed,

Dave Perkins.

 

The user forum is not the place to reprint email conversations with support agents so please do not repost these emails.

This is also not the correct place to ask for a refund. This is a user-to-user forum. Any and all issues regarding refunds must be directed to the relevant support department.

Personally, if it's good enough for Qbert, it's good enough for me. Q is using a standard TSP setup. No voodoo or anything special.

Karlos

 

I'm not asking for a refund here...just poting as I have written the OG thread....so please Karlos...shed some light on how you achieve the settings that will allow me to scratch as I would with analogue discs...and yes...OBV if it is good enough for the Q it's good enough...FULL STOP....but are you seriously saying that Q-bert has a latency of 5ms...

 

I have amended my original post to not include anything about asking for a refund...which I certainly did.

 

According to a recent enquiry about latency issues with Traktor Scratch Pro 2 A6 and
my Windows 8, 64 bit, Intel Quadcore i5 1.8ghz, 6gb ram, 750gb hd Acer laptop I have
leaned that in Traktor there is a software buffer which is similar to the soundcard/driver buffer.
Whilst you can adjust the size of the soundcard/driver buffer, the buffer in
Traktor is fixed at 128 samples.
This means that it is impossible to get any faster with Traktor as the
overall latency will never be smaller than the given size of the software buffer.
So regarding latency and the processing buffer...a value of 128 is the fastest (and the
recommended optimum) .
So the lowest latency is achieved with a processing buffer of 128 and a 96k sample rate, resulting
in ~5ms.
I have actually achieved 4.6ms but only at 32 samples / 96k sample rate

This is an edited version of what was removed from the original post which just contains the facts and figures of Traktor Scratch Pro 2, gathered from an official reply given to me from a NI support enquiry about the latency issue I have...but I have edited it to not appear exactly as it did in my original post/email.
I can't see that I am breaking any forum rules here...that certainly is not my intention but I simply will not let this issue go until I am satisfied, that is why we (NI owners ...owners of £100's worth of NI equipment...not a bunch of free trial programs or old cracks)
can air our opinions and concerns.

This is obviously an issue for PC owners, if Mac platform is the only one capable of running Traktor Scratch Pro 2 for timecoded vinyl then the system requirements are not specific enough and wrong...the Title "Scratch Pro" entitles the buyer to achieve the same level of competence and performance as the "pro" musicians who are sponsored and demonstrate this specific item...this isn't about Traktor as anything other than a "Pro" "Scratch" tool...the rest of it is awesome, the sad fact is that it has taken me a very long time to be in a position revamp my studio with new and fantastic NI gear...I am a family bloke on a normal wage...and Traktor was the crowning glory...being able to rip it up with my own tunes and loops has been my dream for years and I'm overjoyed with the rest of my NI stuff...but gutting to realize Traktor is useless.

 

Ok...after a day spent taking advice and amending settings I have achieved a latency of 4.6 ms at 64 samples/96k with hardly any red clipping on the load meter and thus far no drop outs.
I will list everything I did even though it's probably been covered already...
I disabled all Power Saving Options as described in this excellent guide from the knowledge base.
I disabled the on board webcam, DVD drive, WIFI/network adapters (my laptop doesn't go online), Bluetooth,
ACPI battery setting and the on board soundcard.
I un-installed McAfee security and a handful of minor/unused programs that came as part of the "package" from PC World.
I had an "in depth" with Task Manager http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2013/06/06/windows-8-task-manager-in-depth/
and also ran LatencyMon. The biggest user on the LatencyMon result was an NVID driver which I have yet to address as I have no idea what to do about it at the moment...it was reporting a usage of .6ish and by far the biggest user, the next being .1 and then 0.0's for the remaining bunch.
I will continue to lower the latency as much as I can without running the risk of an unstable/un useable system and amend this thread as I go.
General experience in life has taught me that there is little that can't be resolved with research, discussion and debate amongst like minded people which I found in bucket loads on Mark Stewart's fb page on Traktor Scratch Pro 2, whom I thank for taking the time to ponder my particular problem and point me in the right direction...a genuine enthusiast.

 

Sound quality wasn't/isn't acceptable at extreme settings, 4.6 was too ambitious 5.1 is the lowest I can achieve. 5.1ms latency isn't quick enough to boast "pro" standards for what is essentially "finger tip/touch control"... but it's close, an educated guess would be a target of 3.5ms.
To be up to the job at hand it needs to be responsive enough to pick up finger tip drumming ... 5 hits per second would be on the mark, but 5 times per second sounds easy for something working in degrees of 5 thousandths of a second ... so why is the on/off pick up of the sound sloppy? is it not really an issue of the 128 samples 44.1khz 1ms buffer at all? or slow CPU speed, my i5 shows 1 core working a lot another a bit with the other 2 pretty much dormant looking and a speed of about 2.4khz, the laptop isn't reporting any stress at all. My Maschine feels as tight as a gnats at 5.6ms latency and I can "drum" the pads with my fingers as I would the crossfader on my mixer with ease (Vestax pmc 05 pro/innofader) ... and that fires up with Komplete Ultimate and all the gigabits of stuff it carries around...very confusing indeed.
The obvious alternative probably just isn't, and is just another box of joy for one and a half trumpets more...not likely really and as much as I would love a Rane 62, I need both kidneys at the moment ... and I still feel that when it all shakes out the NI product will be the best, so it's back in the box for this cheeky chappie until 1 of the 3 steps forwards with a solution.

 

I decided to try my windows 7 laptop, spec isn't as good as the i5 but initial latency tests showed a latency about 1/3rd ( maximum latency of 298ms) of the Windows 8 lappy which was over 1000ms (using DPC latency checker).
Windows 7 Poffesional 32bit, latest chipset drivers...lol...from 2006???, 3gb ram, Celeron Dual Core T3100 @ 1.9ghz
I have gone through the same performance tricks as before to help speed up and not throttle the cpu. This Win7 lappy has a Base Score of 3.4...which is determined by the chipset drivers, gaming graphics score 4.0 and the other lot all are 5 and over...the Win8 lappy has a Base Score of 5.7 as a comparison.
I setup Traktor with only 2 track decks and no sample decks, external mixer... the lowest possible levels of quality, 32 /96000, gave a latency of about 4.6ms but severe crackle and pop with other audio probs, totally unusable ... 32/48000 was better with a latency of 5.1 but was reporting buffer under runs although I had no audible probs as before with the sound quality, 48/48000 was almost achievable, only 1 buffer under run but 64/48000 runs smoothly, it has a latency of 5.7ms which is quite a lot more than I was getting before on the Windows 8.1. i5 laptop.....but it's, without a doubt, more responsive ... and I mean by a country mile...it picks up every single little touch and tap instantly, the latency can still be felt a tiny tiny bit but it's so slight I'm confident it'll be easily overcome with a dab of skilatchi. I have been running 2 Noisia tracks from the iTunes folder for this test, (special edition version) Soul Purge and Alpha Centauri dl'd from iTunes, I then switched to various WAV files that I had already made up in Abelton and had no problems with any tracks of a similar size.

Conclusion...lol...I don't know what to say, I would like to go back and re-run Traktor on the other laptop to rule out any basic errors by me because I find it hard to believe the new and much more powerful Windows 8.1 i5 blah blah is being out performed by this old girl...but the poof is in the pudding.

This Samsung laptop with a Celeron dual core T3100 1.9ghz 3gb ram 100gb hd (80% full)
Windows 7 Profesional 32bit, service pack 1
Windows Experience Rating 3.4

Runs Traktor PEFRCTLY and it's a thing of joy!!!!!

Draw you own conclusions ... run your own tests, I'm a builder with caveman hands and very little IT knowledge, the biggest help on this forum was getting no help at all which forced me to do it on my own, I did find very useful info in The Knowledge Base to be fair but if I'm perfectly honest I would be a happy chappie if I don't have to come back ... I'm now offski to rip it up on my Traktor Scratch Pro 2 \o/ ..... WORD

 

Although I'm not familiar with Windows 8, I have always been able to go to the minimum buffer setting.

Let me suggest you do an optimization: http://www.native-instruments.com/e...5/windows-8-tuning-tips-for-audio-processing/

 

are you serious ^^^

 

Windows 7...Windows 8 ...Windows 8.1...doesn't matter, laggy and unreliable. I wouldn't even contemplate using this LIVE ... it's like pushing jelly with wet leaf.

 

If Traktor runs perfectly on that machine and it certainly runs perfectly on mine (and on Qberts) then surely that would suggest that if Traktor does not run perfectly on other machines then it is the machine not Traktor that is at fault.

Karlos

 

Yes sir.

I have worked on XP, Windows 7, Snow Leopard and Mavericks, and the lowest latency has been in Windows 7, after optimizing and using Asio4all.