There's really no keylock on the sampler decks?

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by gmint, Nov 4, 2010.

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  1. Fraa

    Fraa Forum Member

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    If you record it with the loop recorder, it will. Otherwise, it won't.
     
  2. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

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    That's true, but keep in mind that this is exactly what Ableton does. Also, if it's an issue with performance, I'd gladly give up four sampler slots to have two decks and four (total) sample decks...

    What I'm most peaved about is that this is one of those things that you just naturally expect to be there. After all, Traktor has had keylock since version 2.5 (IIRC). I really don't think it's unreasonable to expect that it's going to be available throughout the program, especially when you consider that keylock has become such an integral part of DJing. I know that someone is going to come along and say "well where did it say that there WAS keylock on the sample decks" and maybe I shouldn't assume ANYTHING. But, like I said, it's been there for probably 10 years, it seems pretty reasonable to assume that it's going to be there when the state of the art ships...
     
  3. Fraa

    Fraa Forum Member

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    I don't usually question certain things NI does or not, cause they just know what they're doing. But in this case I have to say, I WAS expecting Keylock on the sample decks and although I could live without, having that function would be cool :)
     
  4. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

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    I hear where you're coming from, but I think you might find that you're going to miss this feature more than you realize at this point. It certainly depends on your style, but there are some pretty crappy implications of this decision.
     
  5. nohiphop

    nohiphop NI Product Owner

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    I think it's difficult to say the decision is right or wrong.
    In general the decision is definetly wrong, because if you have a laptop with a big cpu this shouldn't be a problem.
    On the other hand there would be enough users not acccepting that their 3 year old laptop will not be able to handle this.
    So I think NI doesn't want to run in such discussions ...
    a bad decision, but at least understandable
     
  6. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

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    Is it really understandable though? We've long had High-Quality / Low-Quality keylock choices. Why would be any different to have a preference to enable / disable keylock on the sample decks?
     
  7. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    As I understand it Per slot keylock is a target for a future release. I have no other details. The current state of play is not desireable, but there is a workaround - Use Loop Recorder.

    Phil
     
  8. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

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    To be clear though, that is only a partial workaround...

    Targeted for a future release. Probably my least favorite phrase to hear in connection with anything made my NI.
     
  9. jose bee

    jose bee Forum Member

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    This sticks out like a sore thumb to be honest when your playing. I use these decks for scrartching phrases. I think it's probably easy to pass this off as a minor issue until you actually encounter it.
     
  10. liffgarden

    liffgarden New Member

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    Hi guys,

    I come from Ableton Live where I have a massive setup of loops that go well together (think 200 scenes with 4 tracks / Moldover & mashups kind of set). What is really neat with Live is that you can basically load your whole set once without having to worry about finding files on the fly, beatmatch, & keylock etc. Instead you focus of bringing 4 tracks in/out of the mix and applying effects.

    The downside of that is of course that you remove all the creative song selection from your set when all clips are their in a grid. Plus, you can't loop, beatjump or use Traktors effects which, imho, are more tuned to DJ music performance.

    What I was hoping when I first saw the S4 was the ability to use S4 for my mashup sets in the same manner as Live but without the downsides. In that, key lock for sample decks + sample sets we're key (pun intended ;)

    Just being a user, I'm not going to second guess the development decisions or make ill informed feature demands that I don't know anything about how they are being prioritized by NI (that's their job after all and I actually think they're doing a pretty good job anyway...).

    But from my personal point of view - If the S4 is meant to blend more traditional DJ:ing with mashup and controllerism - then sample sets and sample deck keylock would have been very helpful.

    Thanks for listening
     
  11. DjStrategy

    DjStrategy NI Product Owner

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    I hear ya! +1 especially on the samplesets!
     
  12. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    Understood on both counts!

    Phil
     
  13. JuriV

    JuriV Forum Member

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    I have to admit, it was a bit of a wtf? moment for me when I started reading this thread. I just got the S4 today and I like it very very much, but this sure is a big downside...

    Is it really perfomance? I can easily play ten tracks in Ableton Live without paining my processors too much...I don't think performance is the reason. But I sure hope so it will be fixed in a future update before Xmas!
     
  14. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

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    The only workaround I can think of is by saving your musical loops (as in loops with a harmonic, rather than rhythmic content) at several bpm around what you use, and then loading, and syncing the bpm to the nearest one.
     
  15. gmint

    gmint NI Product Owner

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    I think that's a pretty good way of saying that there aren't many good workarounds to this situation ;)

    About the only thing that I have to say is let's make some noise so that NI knows that this needs to be a priority.
     
  16. jonnyb0y

    jonnyb0y New Member

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    +1 to this thread, lack of keylock on samples makes the sampler deck worthless if you want to copy a loop to sample when the source deck has keylock enabled.

    Unless it's just beats or you aren't tempo bending the source track, then it's fine obviously. But that is never the case it seems. Guess I won't be using sample decks live with anything harmonic for the time being! Please NI, add sample deck keylock asap!

    100% agree with people saying this should be at the top of the list! Thank you to OP!
     
  17. Fraa

    Fraa Forum Member

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    I just use the loop recorder for it, spinned for like 2 hours yesterday and I was constantly using 2 trackdecks + 2 sample decks.. I would make a loop with the loop recorder (had it set to cue), go into Copy Mode, copy the loop to one of the sample slots and I was ready to go. I guess you have to press one button more, but that way you won't have the Keylock issue you would normally have if you would copy a loop straight from the deck to a sample slot. Only when you pitchbend the loop you'll still hear it, but for that issue we'll probably have to wait till they fix it in a future update.

    I think we should just stop complaining in this thread, because for now... we just have to live with it :)
     
  18. lethal_pizzle

    lethal_pizzle NI Product Owner

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    Yeah pretty much.

    Looking long-term, I reckon 8 keylocked loops plus 2 keylocked decks would pretty much bring my laptop to its knees (it does in Ableton anyway), so what would be a good compromise? Having a single keylockable sampler, with which you can 'bounce' samples to another non-keylock sampler? Or just having selectable keylock on all sample decks anyway?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  19. Count Zero

    Count Zero ModerAUtor Moderator

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    Have the option to turn them all on indervidually. If your hardware can't handle that don't turn them all on. That way those who have enough power can utilize the feature.
     
  20. loopbg

    loopbg NI Product Owner

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    Think that the samples are short - always. The first playback of a sample could just be cached with the Key change applied and then played without further overhead. Recompute of the sample has to be triggered if a key change occurs on the master.

    It should be possible and it shouldn't eat too much additional memory - 8 minutes WAV is what? 70MB - not a big deal.
     
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