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Think i switch to Akai Fire and FL Studio

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Balog, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. AL’DREAD

    AL’DREAD NI Product Owner

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    4,215
    That’s pretty cool , especially if you’ve got mates with one , tho I don’t think I could buy 4 of the same controllers
    Tho I do own 4 ni controllers smh
     
  2. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,640
    If they do they have brought it on themselves and with the huge financial investment they can certainly afford the extra staff. I know I keep banging on about this but there's one guy doing MuTools and it's development puts Maschine to shame.
    So much of the admittedly large NI ecosystem is in need of development and consolidation yet where are they focused.......er not there to be sure.......
    Something is supremely amiss at the head of this fiasco.............
     
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  3. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,842
    I don't think more than one musician is the point as each would have only half-control, especially over the steps. I agree 4 would be too much but 2 for 32 steps and 8 knobs seems reasonable for people who are big fans of step sequencing. The cool thing is really that more than one can be used.
    Most of the active users here aren't really happy and remain on the forum just for info on when what they want to happen actually happens, a bit sad.
    Don't get me wrong though... There's a lot I love or I wouldn't be here or own any products, I just don't like the development direction, how slow it is and the fact that whoever is in charge is out of touch with our wishes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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  4. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    878
    The sad thing is that all that's lacking could be remedied with software updates. A year down the line, there's not been much in the way of change, despite that $59m investment. I really do hope that NI is going to turn around and shock users with a Maschine 3.0 that delivers, and then some, but I don't see it happening given how quiet they've been on addressing functionalities since that open letter was published. A roadmap or regular devblog would be great. I understand that they're undoubtedly not wanting to show their hand to the rest of the industry with what they're up to, but to at least know when fairly common/expected/announced functionality is coming or how it's even going would be a solid move.

    Perhaps in 2018, where software updates are commonplace, customers are more demanding than ever before because additions and improvements can happen without another investment in hardware. With that said, there's basic functionality that the KKMK2 and Maschine MK3 really should have shipped with that their predecessors had. That functionality was expected. A lot of those sales came from that expectation because the KKMK1 and Maschine MK2 were so solid.

    Those open letters were a great PR move, and given NI's track record, there was a lot of trust put into NI that they would deliver. Obviously that's a lot of pressure for any dev team to meet those really lofty expectations, but other companies are managing to deliver what they won't. Perhaps not as polished in UX, but they're shipping significant updates with great regularity and far smaller budgets and customer bases.

    Basic functionality aside (lack of MCU in KKMK2, MIDI mode in Mikro MK3), there's expectations like multiple patterns per scene that you would expect would be possible, but sadly aren't. Then there's the little things like the Light Guide not being possible to switch off on the KKMK2 unlike the KKMK1.

    Let's remember; Reaper's dev team consists of two people, and what's practically a shoestring budget that needs to move mountains. Granted, Reaper is just software, NI have both hardware and software, but if something like Reaper is being done with a skeleton crew, I would hope that NI can pull out the big guns with that kind of investment.
     
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  5. alpert

    alpert NI Product Owner

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    1,048
    but you have jailbreaked it, havent you lol
     
  6. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    LOL! I used to jailbreak it actually... But since then Apple has at least been smart enough to slowly implement the best Jailbait tweaks, half of the new features came from there so they actually got devs to work and test things for them for free.
     
  7. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,640
    The goal behind Reaper is to produce good software at a reasonable price along with listening to the users.
    The goal of NI at the moment appears to be first and foremost income generation by the lowest common denominator in the spin that that is somehow 'democratic' and stuff anything else.
    Some find the Reaper approach a tad more inspirational..............................................
     
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  8. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,842
    HammyHavoc 50mil might mean nothing... A huge investment can be a gift or curse from user's perspective if the suits have a say on what is worked on, I assume they will prefer to focus on what's profitable instead of what the current userbase wants, we shall see I guess.

    I seriously doubt these huge companies don't know what their competitors are gonna do ahead of time. I don't think it's a coincidence that the MikroMk3 got released right before this FL Akai thing. Also, i find it hard to believe that NI has some sort of new exclusive technology that is so groundbreaking that they need to keep secret... Keeping things on the low is an invalid argument when what you need is to catch up and not really re-invent the wheel.

    I don't think the Open Letter was a PR move, only a tiny minority of users actually read them, most of the userbase doesn't hang around here. TBH I am not even sure if the person who wrote them still has the same job position or has been replaced. I think it came from a good place and at the time that was the dev focus, and since then someone decided to change that focus, probably more than once.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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  9. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    878
    Very true. Here's hoping more people vote with their wallets. I guess NI's business model hinging on the latest new and shiny or expansion pack doesn't help, though IIRC, we paid for the update to Maschine 2.0? So I'm guessing that a feature-laden Maschine 3.0 update could be relatively profitable, though how many Maschine users are willing to pay for an update I'm not sure. Depends on how well the MK3 has sold assumedly.

    You're absolutely right re Florian (employee who wrote the open letter), as of September 2018, Tim Adnitt is now Director of Products. Interestingly, he leads both the Maschine and Komplete Kontrol teams. Perhaps we'll see some change given a few months of Adnitt's leadership.
     
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  10. SupremeSoulstice

    SupremeSoulstice NI Product Owner

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    482
    I bet Florian let out a sigh of relief when he bounced out though..
     
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  11. AL’DREAD

    AL’DREAD NI Product Owner

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    4,215
    Is there any info on how the fruity loop fire version compares with the other versions , there’s 4 versions ranging from 99/900$ ,
    So Is it closer to the 99 version or the 199 version ?
     
  12. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,842
    Shhhh.... Saying Fruity Loops instead of FL Studio reveals your age, grown man are not supposed to like FL :D
    The Fire version is the same as the Fruity 89$ Version, info here. (Calling a base version "Fruity" is so awkward lol)
     
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  13. mezzurias

    mezzurias NI Product Owner

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    2,398
    This thing actually looks pretty cool. I haven't used FLStudio since when it was still called Fruity Loops and I'm not looking to change now. I fired up the demo on my Mac just to see where the software was at after all these years and having used more "traditional" daws makes ti hard to transition back to the application. They do a lot of things very differently than most other DAWs. The controller would definitely be cool to play with tho.

    I think it will sell like hotcakes. It's cheaper than say a Push, and it looks like it follows the FLStudio workflow quite well.
     
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  14. mykejb

    mykejb NI Product Owner

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    629
    I am so stealing that line with different names to use in company meetings! :D:thumbsup:

    Mike
     
  15. mykejb

    mykejb NI Product Owner

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    629
    I agree about Traktor. I was hoping TP3 would bring new features but it looks to be the same old thing really with a new coat. I was really hoping for something innovative like VST support or similar, but I can't see that happening at the moment with the way the company focus seems to be moving.

    Mike
     
  16. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    2,021
    ...it may probably be a smart move entering a segment with a lot of users by recycling technology, that is already available, e.g. the MPD232 - which is a really good controller. (InMusic seems to be king of that business model.) And if it's about gossiping about Akai vs. NI, it's probably not a bad idea pinching them from a different angle.

    But looking at the hardware specs, watching the product videos etc. I can already assess the level of hardware integration with Fruity Loops and it's no contest neither on the instrument nor the mixing side. It's obviously the better step sequencer, but even for techno & house styles (not judging here btw. - generally they simply require the least instrument playing abilities) either a dedicated keyboard, pad/step sequencing devices (like the MPD232 or the Beatstep) or a mixing controller are still more usable tools for production and performance. Especially for performance purposes it's good, that it's possible to chain up to four devices to have the required level of control, but in which price segment are we then? And aren't there better solutions?

    And I wouldn't like to imagine the hours one has to waste with custom mapping that whole thing to even come near the level of hardware integration of Maschine/KK. It looks like nice controller for FL Studio kids of all ages, but to me it barely exceeds a toy-ish quality.

    Btw. - I don't know, why people are always so hung up on Midi. It's a very good standard for general purposes across multiple platforms and applications. However, it has a resolution of 128 steps for 128 parameters per midi channel and it's obviously enough for the majority of users, but if one would actually look at the numbers of parameters and their resolution of most plug-ins one would understand, that Maschine and KK aren't just using Midi. So, it's a bit ridiculous, claiming that NI would be so far behind in competition, because they're not focussing on an almost 40 year old protocol.

    To be fair - I don't know, whether Fire is using some sort of midi mode with FL or not, but considering its price it really looks like it. As a DAW FL Studio is, of course, superior to Maschine - no doubt. But as a controller for plug-ins, as finger-drumming device, as a mixer etc. this thing is no contest to Maschine. (To a Mikro, yes - but I don't see the point in that thing either).
     
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  17. muitosabao

    muitosabao NI Product Owner

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    374
    ^^^ This guy right here.
     
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  18. Mac Tinitus

    Mac Tinitus NI Product Owner

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    278
    It’s just sad that Ni don’t know to use the power there already hold in hands and get blind for the future way . They rebuild hardware what still exist for a long time.. what still would beat many of the new controller what comes just out these days from other company’s...easy Traktor with Maschine Full compatible..work on the Sequenzer..a Little Bit here a little bit there ...rec. mute and solo ...bang it ...but nope ..there other plans . Maschine is like a Spider-Man who looks good and have some good skills but can’t
    net spinning.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  19. j.silva

    j.silva NI Product Owner

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    130
    Wait for a XL version with 16 bigger pads on the side for FPC and maybe even a 25key module
     
  20. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,842
    Valid points on your post, however, when we use harsh statements like being "far behind" we aren't talking about MIDI or the Controllers at all... we are talking about the Software. The MK3, Studio and maybe even Jam are clearly much more advanced controllers then Akai's Fire but regardless of how much potential a controller has it's only as good as the software it controls. Not everything is behind though, Machine's (and KK's) browser is no doubt the best in the market right now but unfortunately, that doesn't help turning a sketch into a finished song.

    NI has over 10 years of experience making Maschine and it's controllers, Akai just made their first FL controller, im curious to see what they are going to do next, I bet anything that dedicated FL 4x4 and 8x8 controllers are coming in the next couple of years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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