Think i switch to Akai Fire and FL Studio

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Balog, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    ...so the notion of this thread isn't about the superioty of FL Studio as a DAW as opposed to Maschine, as well as this controller giving you something that Maschine can't offer? Then my bad. But come on - it's always the same. Something new drops and it'll always be used as an argument to prove someone's dislike against Maschine. For instance, if my memory serves me right, when there was this announcement, that either VIP or the MPC software would allow midi mapping, many people agreed, what a progressive move that would be and kudos, that they're opening their system (unlike NI). And I thought then, you guys are talking about standard midi, right?

    I don't have anything against other software or DAWs and you know, how critical I am with Maschine and NI. But I don't like it, when people are bitching about Maschine here, while they're revealing, that they have no clue about the technology or the capabilities of a controller.

    And I don't quite get the logic about the controller being as good as the software it controls - on the other hand, what is a controller good for, if it can only adress a fraction of the software? Is it then better than any other generic controller? We don't have to argue about this - it's clever marketing from Akai and we might indeed see more controllers for more platforms. If it'll make FL users happy, then fine. But considering my experience with Akai, I wouldn't expect ground-breaking commitment or revolutionary developments. In that regard, they're no better than any other company.

    Btw. - people are rightfully complaining, that the new Mikro doesn't have a midi mode. Back then I did not buy an APC40 mkII, because it didn't have one either. To my knowledge it still doesn't. I don't know, this whole x vs y company argument is a bit like a schoolyard fight (and I wonder now, why I participated :D)
     
  2. SupremeSoulstice

    SupremeSoulstice NI Product Owner

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    To be fair, NI started this with their open letter making claims as to what was next, being what we in here had been asking for. That’s on them. Also, I don’t remember the OP saying that one was better than the other in it’s entirety.
     
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  3. m-chop

    m-chop NI Product Owner

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    There is also alot of guys who use FL without any controllers... so it's a good intro for them to get into hardware.
     
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  4. m-chop

    m-chop NI Product Owner

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    435
    nice bro
     
  5. SupremeSoulstice

    SupremeSoulstice NI Product Owner

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  6. District Onagi

    District Onagi NI Product Owner

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    FIRE BEAT. Thanks for sharing.

    NI better watch out. FL is leagues ahead of Maschine already and having a tactile controller ups it even more. I might have to dust off my copy of 11 meng!
     
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  7. SupremeSoulstice

    SupremeSoulstice NI Product Owner

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    Man not gonna lie, looks like a fun piece of kit
     
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  8. kb420

    kb420 NI Product Owner

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    There's a new video for this thing being released every 5 minutes.

     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
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  9. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, it might be. The OP is just about something potentially being better for his needs than what Maschine can currently can offer, X-product fitting one's needs better than Y-product doesn't necessarily mean one is superior. In this specific case, IMO I believe the Fire is inferior to the MK3/Studio as a Controller but the software it controls is by far superior, which combo is better is of course highly subjective.

    When something new drops people are always gonna make all sorts of comparisons, that's only natural and will always happen especially when you're not happy about the lack of specific features and have some build up frustration.

    IMO yes, 100%. A Controller that can directly access a portion of the software is way better than a generic one if that controller focuses on what the user wants more hands-on control. I am not a step sequencer guy as that always felt like something more appropriate for steady-beat 4/4 music to me (techno, house, etc) So this controller is probably not for me but it represents something: DAW's are now more than ever looking at having dedicated production-focused controllers for their Software which is a good thing. It's a natural evolution since the last few years DAW's have been adding more and more production features (I believe it's a good move for the opposite, production tools also start adding DAW features or they will get left behind, that's not saying "make it a DAW" though, it just means adapting to this decade)

    This is exactly why above I said this topic highly subjective. If one values doing the most from the Hardware than an MK3/Studio is indeed a better choice than something like this Fire thing. Personally, I really enjoy doing most from the controller, it's super fun and I get more in the vibe and lost in the music than when staring at the computer screen but finishing projects is a hassle for my specific style and needs, I need a lot more mouse/keyboard/linear features to be able to that... Some of those features were promised and because I still believed in those promises I got an MK3 instead of just selling my M-Studio and moving on, the more time passes the more start regretting that decision.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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  10. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    Well hopefully the 3rd party developer for MPC 2.3 is maschine software.. it would wipe out all competitors.. i just want total control of maschine as a vst in my MPC X.. using Akai's sequencer..
     
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  11. SupremeSoulstice

    SupremeSoulstice NI Product Owner

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    Man that would be so dope, but I don't see NI making that move. They're trying to sell controllers as well. Being able to use Maschine's Sound libraries hosted by Maschine as a vst plugin would be incredible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
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  12. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    I know a longshot and it would make since for NI.... it would increase sales of both expansions and software...
     
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  13. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    Supposedly the big push to shove Sounds.com down our not totally receptive necks is to have as wide a user base as possible and financially this should really be the case for all their content of which there is a growing mount. Allowing everything to play nicely with everything else should only help that. I'd argue that you are going to sell more product not by being restrictive but by actually making your products best in class. Wouldn't it be wonderful if NI thought that too but they'd have to find a way of ridding themselves of the dross that's preventing that.
     
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  14. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

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    2,203
    Yeah I own FL and Ableton also. I found that with the chord track/meldoyne (easier to do basslines/chords etc) in Studio One has better tools with what I mentioned to help with my sampled based beats, hardware integration, and overall workflow vs all the other DAW's. This is not you, but how I'm working. With today's generation, and what I've seen locally and in Atlanta (hip hop circles) nobody really cares about the battle between the MPC vs Maschine etc. Mainly producers for today's generation are more open to collaboration and making the best stuff they can with minimal equipment. Now its coming full circles where producers during the mpc vs maschine era clowned FL Studio and thought it was a toy. Now it's like some of those same producers are seeing the success of an 808 Mafia, Metro and new wave producers. Now they are more open and curious about FL Studio. In the end it doesn't matter. You use what's best whether FL or Studio One or Maschine. In general I think a person is either good with what they have or not.
     
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  15. kb420

    kb420 NI Product Owner

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    It's an age/generational thing. The Old School guys like myself that grew up on hardware are nostalgic and set in their ways and want hardware like workflow. This younger generation didn't have to hustle to buy equipment. A lot of them went on line and downloaded a cracked version of FL Studio and started making music. That's the real reason why FL has such a huge user base, and why you see it everywhere on social media. Personally, I never had any interest in FL, but I must admit that version 20 has given it some features that have sort of made it a lot more legitimate as a DAW. The old saying, "it's not the gear, it's you ear" still holds true, but times change. Just about ANY program out there right now can make the kind of music that I listened to when I was growing up.

     
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  16. AL’DREAD

    AL’DREAD NI Product Owner

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    3,969
    It’s funny because it’s just as old as logic and cubase vst , not sure about ableton, definitely older than maschine like double the age
    When it came out it was just loops , my mate had it , I don’t even remember if it was a crack or if it was free as it was so basic , I even think music 2000 on the PlayStation was better , I remember having a play , and giving up after 3 mins when I realised you couldn’t use a piano roll.
     
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  17. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    everyone keep doing what you love because us old heads will tell you different like you will down the road where music will be just what you walk and talk down the street.. meaning not hitting pad or ever thinking everything will be what has been programmed like he have all done in college.. REAL TALK!!!
     
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  18. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    The openness for collaborations seems to be something very specific to Atlanta, it's not just a producer thing, it's rappers too, I see people mentioning it all the time in interviews.
    Absolutely, im 34 so I came from that era where FL clowned, while my old head peers made fun of it a new generation was enjoying it and image-line delivered what their audience wanted even when those features looked childish, out of everyone that uses the 'democratization of music creation tools' catchphrase they are the ones that actually did it the best IMO simply because it's the #1 software used by newbies, many of those newbies became pros... so now it's just the #1 amongst the young generation / new wave. The rise of the southern trap sound that goes well with the way Fl is designed helped that a lot too.

    Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
    That's another of the main contributing factors to FL's popularity, the fact that it's so easy to find in the Piracy download world, Image-Line is fully aware of this, they even mention it on their FAQ (LOL) they don't even try to change it aggressively because they know it brings in future buyers, seems contradictory but long term it proved to be an extremely effective strategy, that's why I say "Openness" even when in the extreme context of piracy works in the long run while closed exclusive ecosystems will always remain... exclusive, which equals a niche market. I personally grew up using pirated software from the age of 15, my dream was to have enough coins to buy MPC or an ASR10 like my idols... Later on when I had enough coins and bought one I ended super disappointed with the feature set compared to software so I went back to software+controllers... "it's not the gear, it's your ear" is indeed great advice. Now everything I own is legal but I wouldn't ever gotten here in the first place if I didn't had used pirated stuff for years.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2018
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  19. kb420

    kb420 NI Product Owner

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    I've never used any pirated software, but, I will admit that Image Line's move to initially ignore people illegally using their software appears to have been a genius move. FL Studio is ubiquitous on social media. I bought my nephew a Maschine Mk2 a few years ago because he wanted to get into music and making beats. After he really got the hang of it, he told me all of his friends use Fl Studio. They have the attention of the youth, and the days of hardware workstations are over.
     
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  20. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

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    1,998
    In fact we agree. I wasn't adressing Eric directly and it's, in fact, not my intention. What I took offence at, is not necessarily the general notion about trading off one product against Maschine. It's totally comprehensible, that this happens, when one is dissatisfied with something and Maschine has indeed some big issues. I also don't mind, if someone is getting along better with x product than with y, even if y may be objectively more powerful or offers more features. So it is of course highly subjective, as it all comes down to the person using it - sometimes it's the approach, that is more important than the result. Or you'll only get to that result with this approach - no doubt about that.

    But when I start to be bothered, is when the general notion is developing towards presenting something as a more suitable/useful/better etc. solution (that is OK, that is subjective), when it is obvious, that the underlying technology of it does in no way have the capabilities to do the things, that, for instance, Maschine can. Whether this is useful to someone or not, is, of course, a different matter.

    And it may also be apples an oranges, as Fire is a controller for a DAW, whereas Maschine is a controller for something, that obviously isn't a DAW. Whether one likes Maschine to be a DAW or an instrument is a different discussion.
     
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