Time machine Pro or Tone Machine

Discussion in 'KONTAKT' started by Bejon, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. Bejon

    Bejon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    60
    Hello,
    I am still trying to grab the concept of these two (and the other possibilities under the tab). Time Machine Pro and Tone Machine can both change the pitch and the tempo/playback speed of a sample. So why are there 2 machines to do the same? Why not one 'Super Machine' that can do what Time Machine Pro and Tone Machine and all the others in the list can do?
    Is the concept that Tone machine is maybe more suited for tonal material and time machine for more rhythmical, and that I can choose per zone (I use 1 group per zone) which of the possible machines to use?

    Thanks
    Gerard
     
  2. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    15,082
    They sound different and do different things. Tone machine gives unpitched material like drums pitch, whereas time machine is just regular time stretching.
     
  3. David Das

    David Das Moderator Moderator

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    7,039
    And the different Time Machine modes are there because they are slightly different algorithms. NI did not want to change a feature that sounded one way in one version of Kontakt, and then have patches sound different if they upgraded the algorithm, therefore, they left all the algorithms in there so you could choose which one suits your particular material the best.
     
  4. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    15,082
    They're very different algorithms :)
     
  5. Bejon

    Bejon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    60
    The algorithms may be different, but for now I just use my ears and the sound of both machines is very much the same when transposing a violin sample one half note down and increasing its tempo.
    Hence my question.
    I can understand that one machine is better for tonal material and the other for rhythmic, but to combine these things in one machine for clarity purposes seems logical?

    Regarding my other question about editing (cutting etc.) of samples: you suggest that I better do that outside Kontakt. To be honest it would be convenient to be able to do it all inside Kontakt, that being a sampler, and not a sample (library) player. My now obsolete Akai S6000 could do it all. So can Kontakt, but you don't seem to trust it very much. Why do you suggest this? And can you recommend a program for that? (on the Mac).

    Thanks
    Gerard
     
  6. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    Not because of backwards compatibility. It won't happen.

    Because 3rd party sample editing tools have a lot more features.
     
  7. stephen23

    stephen23 NI Product Owner

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    400
    (Trying to think of a kind way to answer that.)

    You could say the same about typefaces - Arial, Times NR etc.

    Actually these time stretchers have evolved in a Darwinian manner over the years, each better than the previous (and probably more CPU-intensive.) The need to retain "legacy" versions people have already used in their projects would seem fairly intuitive.

    I'm not sure exactly what your needs are, but you can have multiple copies of a sample within a single instance of Kontakt (possibly even across several instances), and adjust the Sample Start and Sample End of each one in the Wave Editor according to need. There's no RAM or loading time penalty as Kontakt can reference them all from a single copy in RAM. (Make sure you make "Sample Mod" greater than "Sample Start")
     
  8. Bejon

    Bejon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    60
    This last remark is very interesting. Does it mean I can use the same .wave, to create different sounding zones of the same sample by adjusting sample start and end time of this sample in the wave editor, then copy that zone and adjust this new zone's sample with a different start and end time? So would I use 'copy zone' and then 'paste zone' for that? I do not understand (Make sure you make "Sample Mod" greater than "Sample Start").
    I am sorry, undoubtedly this is all in the manual, but it is so unreadable for me! I hope you can help by telling me by: 'do this, after that do that, click that .. 'etc.

    Thanks
    Gerard
     
  9. stephen23

    stephen23 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    400
    It was intended to be.

    My post had three elements:

    1. Mild admonition (I shouldn't pay any attention to this)
    2. History lesson
    3. An attempt at a constructive suggestion. The answer is yes and yes. Don't worry about Sample Mod which I think restricts only modulation of sample start by MIDI.

    In answer to your later post, your simplest course may be to load the sample each time by dragging it from its folder in Windows Explorer or whatever. Release it just above the keyboard and it will be placed on one key.
     
  10. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    15,082
    By any modulator available in Kontakt, actually.