Bug Timing issue with Maschine in Cubase

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by X-III, Sep 11, 2019 at 6:45 PM.

  1. X-III

    X-III NI Product Owner

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    Maschine 2.8.5 within Cubase Pro 10, I'm having a syncing issue where Maschine is playing slightly behind. Before hitting play, both cursors are lined up correctly on bar 1.1.1 but When I hit play in Cubase, Maschine jumps back to start playing from bar 4.4.3.

    Exporting the audio is also incorrect as it's adding everything on 4.4.4 at the beginning. The same happens with Loop Optimize on or off.

    If I remove all samples from bar 4.4, then it plays and exports correctly.

    Is there something I'm doing wrong or is this a software issue?

    [​IMG]
    Before hitting play, everything appears to be correct with alignment and BPM.

    [​IMG]
    After I hit play, Cubase starts playing correctly at 1.1.1 while Maschine jumps back to start at 4.4.3 causing incorrect beat pattern and timing issues.




    Post #2
     
  2. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    It's not out of sync per se, Maschine starts playing a little bit before Cubase does so it plays the end portion of the Pattern, then Cubase starts moving and they're both in Sync, can you confirm that's actually what happens for you too?
    Even without Maschine or any plugin if I press play on Cubase it takes a few milliseconds to start, (buffer at 32 so it's not latency) this is what causes the issue because during that delay plugins with sequencers will start playing... It might be related to some preference option for some kind of look-ahead feature. I noticed the ASIO Guard level has a tiny impact on the playback delay but not enough to fully fix it.

    It's definitively a Cubase thing because Ableton Live doesn't have this behavior.
    I am not a Cubase expert so someone else will have to chime in.
     
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  3. X-III

    X-III NI Product Owner

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    25


    Cubase and Maschine play at the same time as Cubase is master sync. Maschine's sequencer should be aligned with Cubase but it's clearly not. Here is a screenshot of what Maschine is doing.
    [​IMG]
    The green bar represents where the loop actually starts, you can see how off beat the pattern is. Everything before the correct start of the loop is from bar 4.4.4.

    This doesn't happen with Groove Agent 5, MPC 2, D16 Nithonat or Rob Papen Punch. I have a handful of other drum sequencing VSTs that I haven't tested it out on yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 2:36 PM
  4. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    So, in your case playback is always out of sync? Do both metronomes Match if you turn them on? Or is it just a little bit offbeat at the start when play is pressed and then it gets in sync?

    We might not be experiencing the same thing, but it sure sounds similar, this is what happens for me in slow motion:

    [​IMG]

    When I press play both sequencer start moving at 4:4:4 in the image above, only when both Sequencers reach the downbeat the Cubase Playhead starts moving.
    Groove Agent doesn't play any Audio before the Playhead starts moving though, Maschine does, so in my case, the only problem is hearing this bit of Audio of the end of the pattern, after that sync is perfect.

    [​IMG]
    Basically I hear from 2 to 5 hits of those RimShots in yellow before the Cubase Playehad starts moving and the pattern restarts.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. X-III

    X-III NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    25
    Yes, this appears to be what's happening except that it's staying out of sync with Maschine. I just tested Groove Agent again and I do see how it jumps back like Maschine except that it doesn't play the samples on 4.4.4. So, it's an issue with Cubase, which is frustrating because I've been troubleshooting with Steinberg but haven't got any help as they state it's a NI issue. I'm assuming on your test with Cubase there was no solution to stop that from happening with Maschine? I'll try to figure out a workaround. I appreciate the help.
     
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  6. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    I see. Try going into Plugin Manager, search for Maschine Plug and disable the ASIO option for it, I have seen this fix sort of similar problems for people before.
    Also, can you make an example Cubase project with MaschineVST loaded with just a kick and snare from the default library and attach it here zipped? Something simple like the example in the 2nd picture in post #4. I want to check if with your project's settings things also get out of sync here because that's the only part I can't reproduce.

    Are you on Windows or Mac?

    I am guessing it's some sort of compatibility issue, so the fault might be on both parties, NI and Steinberg even though I am leaning more towards Steinberg since this doesn't happen in other DAW's for me. There's also a chance theres some feature in the VST standard that prevents notes in sequencers from being triggered before the playhead starts moving that NI hasn't implemented, but doubt it.

    I'll report this on the beta, the guys who represent the dev team there are pretty responsive, I'll report back when I get a reply.
    Meanwhile, I'll tag this as a Bug as we both have this issue apart from the sync thing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019 at 1:48 AM
  7. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    X-III Small update, this issue is now logged by the NI team and they're looking into it.
    Thanks for reporting it.
     
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  8. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

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    4,589
    Sorry for chiming in so late, on my system it runs perfect, i tried with the two metronomes and also optical it is in sync. But if i press the rew button in cubase so that it jumps back to the start of the bar i hear 2 sounds if i set it up like in your example.


    Uwe
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019 at 9:09 PM
  9. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    What about the play thing? Do you also see Maschine starting to play before the Cubase playhead moves on the downbeat and the last part of the pattern audio playing?