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traktor 3.2 keylock degrades audio quality

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR PRO / TRAKTOR SCRATCH PRO' started by shamoo!, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. shamoo!

    shamoo! NI Product Owner

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    48
    Hi folks,
    Just wondering if anyone has notice a degrade in audio quality when using the kelylock feature?

    Enabling keylock seems to be required to use the colouring of track pitches for harmonic mixing, but you seem to have to sacrifice audio quality for this.

    I don't really see why enabling keylock is mandatory to get that colouring of track keys. Essentially all you are doing is add or subtracting a couple of numbers from the current playing song and adding a colour.

    Songs sound worse to me because I don't usually play them at their original tempo and to me the timestrech algorithm even this new one doesn't seem to be there yet.

    A good example is the the following song - Enrico sangiuliano - symbiosis

    If you play that song at 132bpm which is only +40c above the original key and switch keylock on and off you can hear a real difference in the audio quality of the lead sound.

    It sounds more warbled, less crisp. Maybe there are some other settings I have wrong or haven't kicked?
     
  2. socalieric007

    socalieric007 New Member

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    16
    Hi. Yes, I have noticed sound quality is noticeably worse with keylock, even at what I would consider to be very moderate changes. I'm running Traktor 3.2 and get sound sometimes get artifacts on lossless files with keylock. Even at -2%, I get squeaking sounds, which oddly enough are not always in exactly the same places (put a 32 beat loop on the song). Take off keylock and it goes away. What makes this more inconvenient is that when I turn off keylock during playback, I get a popping sound. I would expect only a change in key, not a pop.
    So, now, I'm having to rethink how I mix since I want to mix harmonically, but the keylock glitchy sound simply won't do.
     
  3. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

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    Wasn’t this problem fixed with the 3.2/elastique update?

    Man it’s getting worse and worse..
     
  4. socalieric007

    socalieric007 New Member

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    I can't say about before/after since I'm just getting back into djing, but these sound quality issues annoy the f* out of me. A 2% decrease in bmp...I would expect no issue on a lossless file on modern electronic music. I just tried to upload an example of a simple loop (here) where I turn key lock on/off, but mp3/wav are not allowed for upload. It pops over and over and over. I tried the same in rekordbox to compare. Zero pops. And from a sample size of one, it did seem the artifacting wasn't as bad in rekordbox. Can't say which time-stretching is better, but the (live) popping sound when I turn keylock on/off is a no-brainer issue with traktor (how did they not notice it during testing). You cannot turn it off during playback, even if the bpm change is 0%. I do not hear the pop if I change the key, only when I go to turn it off. I tested all this on my kontrol s2, macbook pro, beyerdynamic 990dts, as well as onboard sound. You can hear the artifacting and popping on all.
     
  5. mbelleghem

    mbelleghem NI Product Owner

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    28
    This has been an issue for me for as long as I can remember. Really bloody annoying, seems to happen a few times an hour during a set. Have to go in and manually remove them afterwards. Amazed it hasn't been resolved.
     
  6. mbelleghem

    mbelleghem NI Product Owner

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    28
    Also re the SQ degradation that key lock brings in, FWIW I've found that sometimes the degradation that can be heard during live playback (turn on keylock, sounds warbly/crap) doesn't show up on the recording of the mix. It's almost like there are different rendering engines between the two?

    Also MP3s will of course degrade a lot worse than FLAC/WAV files, as MP3s have a lot less information in them to work with. They've already been lossy compressed, and while what's been 'lost' isn't always audible at normal playback, it shows up quickly when stretching/keylocking. I play 95% FLAC and find that key lock generally sounds pretty good when used sparingly / responsibly (to get through a transition and then turned off as quickly as possible).
     
  7. socalieric007

    socalieric007 New Member

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    16
    I first noticed the sound artifacts when listening to a recording. IMO, it doesn't get better in recordings. I wondered if it was the files and finally sleuthed out that the issue was keylock. Sometimes it works fine, then other times not. Definitely now realize that it cannot stay on the whole time. I just don't know how others keep keylock on all the time and not notice it. I sometimes wonder if the grass if greener with rekordbox. I really like some of its baked-in library management features and I didn't hear any popping sound.
     
  8. DJ Flex I

    DJ Flex I NI Product Owner

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    116
    Is this not fixed yet?
     
  9. kokernutz

    kokernutz NI Product Owner

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    Can you post a link to a recording that exemplifies the problem? Maybe with a track by itself, with and without key lock? I'm curious what it sounds like as I don't think I hear any artifacts unless transpose the key.
     
  10. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    104
    So 3.2 didn’t fix the keylock after all? Are you guys saying that the keylock of V3 sound bad as soon as it’s on? Or it’s just the popping sound when it’s activated - deactivated during playback?

    Either way, the more horror stories I hear, the more I wanna stay the F away for Traktor 3. V2 doesn’t have any problem with the keylock algorithm.. Typical NI, 1 step forward, 10 sep backwards..
     
  11. Russell Fryman

    Russell Fryman New Member

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    5
    I haven't had that issue. I just played a few songs, plus and minus 6% (2x what i do in real gigs), and engaging the key lock on/off. Other than the warble you would expect as it is changing, no issues. no pop. no wavering at speeds. I'm running the 3.2.1.9 on windows 10 pro. Lenovo Carbon X.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. CosinusOmega

    CosinusOmega NI Product Owner

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    24
    Interesting, I never had the above described issues with the keylock, not even on the first version of TP3. I have been reading about these problems a lot, I was trying to reproduce them on my system, but the keylock is working perfectly (or I'm having a hearing problem lol).

    Just thinking: maybe it is not Traktor issue, but may be something up to the hardware, OS, or, as someone mentioned, the quality of the audio files. I also play more than 90% FLAC files.
     
  13. socalieric007

    socalieric007 New Member

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    16
    I'm using aiff on a mbp running mojave. The popping happens both when running traktor latest version on the laptop by itself, as well as when I use the kontrol mk3 latest version. Even when running at native speed, it pops. And, clearly, I'm not the only person who experiences it.
    Regarding the sound quality, some songs work with keylock better than others. But, on lossless files, I would think a 2% change in speed would not be so noticeable (at times). I went back to a song and part that I noticed it before. Oddly, it didn't happen as much. Also, I recall from before that the artifacts were not always in the same places (running a loop). That is very mysterious to me.
     
  14. shamoo!

    shamoo! NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    48
    When I get home tonight I will try upload something.

    It's not big deal really, I just don't use the feature. I believe the engine being used is one of the best available at the moment, so it'll probably be a few more years until they get that to the point where I'd consider and probably others would consider it really sufficient enough for real world use (public vs bedroom).

    Having said that, it's probably more noticable on tunes with melodic parts as opposed to just drum stuff.

    If you have a copy of the tune I mentioned in my first post it's very noticable after the second drop it think, the whole character of the lead line changes. Remind me of steaming @92kbps mp3 internet shows when they first became popular.

    I'm so old :(
     
  15. kashada

    kashada NI Product Owner

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    49
    Keylock degrades audio quality since the first version of traktor Pro 3.
    The new update of Z plane's elastique 3.3 has improved but it's still not as it should be, 90's house tracks with a lot of melodic parts sounds horrible.
    Tried everything, several laptops, soundcards, traktor Pro 3 doensn´t sound well.
    I have one USb drive with the same files analysed on rekordbox, it sounds fine with master tempo on/off, so it´s not a file quality issue.
    NI instead of being constantly concerned with adding new features, i think the main concern should be audio quality, that´s one of the main reason i choose traktor back in 2008 instead of other brands, but to continue like this, it will also be the main reason to switch to rekordbox.
     
  16. Cheef Roberts

    Cheef Roberts NI Product Owner

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    143
    Key lock has improved with every update of Traktor but it will always make the audio sound worse. The simple solution is not to use it and play tracks around their original bpm. I use it sparingly and usually only when I want to change the overall bpm of my mix. I will turn key lock on half way through my live track (during a breakdown if possible) and change the bpm slowly and mix in my next track with key lock turned off. Key lock also puts extra load on your system. I don't normally change bpm that often during a set so I find this works well. Everyone DJs differently so I know this will not be to everyones preference but I just thought I would suggest what i do. I'm an audiophile and love a HQ sound and as I see some of you using FLAC files I know I'm not alone.
     
  17. AndriusDK

    AndriusDK NI Product Owner

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    82
    Just buy Mixed IN Key and you are good to go.
     
  18. dstolbov88

    dstolbov88 New Member

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    I agree with everyone that the sound of the tractor 3.2 is very bad when the Keylock is turned on even at + -1% pitch, the last update did not fix the problem, today the pitch of the rekordbox and the Virtualdj is better than traktor 3.2, if someone solved the problem on their own please write how you did it.
     
  19. Cheef Roberts

    Cheef Roberts NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    143
    3.2.0 update added Elastique 3.3.0 Time Stretching which should be better than 3.1.x etc. Has anyone who has experienced problems rolled back and compared?
     
  20. kashada

    kashada NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    49
    The drums and kick are better, however the melodie still remains horrible.