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traktor 3.2 keylock degrades audio quality

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR PRO / TRAKTOR SCRATCH PRO' started by shamoo!, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. Cheef Roberts

    Cheef Roberts NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    197
    I only use key lock to gradually change the bpm of 1 track over a long 5 hour mix, keeping key lock off for the cued track. As I only do this a few times over this time period I rarely use key lock and keep hq sound.
     
  2. michaelmashup

    michaelmashup New Member

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    9
    Is Key lock not required when mixing in key with a 2 bpm difference?
     
  3. dj_estrela

    dj_estrela NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    507
    Can you please post an example of the simple keylock issues as compared to RB of VDJ in the same condition?
     
  4. DJ Flex I

    DJ Flex I NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    180
    The best keylock algorithm is in cdj nexus 2000. but of course, the price is completely different, so I guess we just have to use what we have.
     
  5. Cheef Roberts

    Cheef Roberts NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    197
    If that is correct and it is 5 year old technology that is not good, unless there have been firmware updates to improve it since release.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  6. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    142
    If you want to keep the original key of the song you need to have the keylock switched on. Speeding up or slowing down the song without the keylock engaged WILL change the original pitch. And yes, even if it’s a by a few BPM.
     
  7. Benny Gazit

    Benny Gazit New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Same problem here...
     
  8. michaelmashup

    michaelmashup New Member

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    9
    I have tried keylock on Tp2 and Tp3 on the same 2019 I7 laptop, mixing externally on a rme fireface, djm, cdj hid. Tp2 has far better keylock. Tp3s keylock is unusable and stays switched off, I would only want to mix with 1 or 2 bpm difference but the audio quality of Tp3s keylock is embarrassing.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    142
    Unbelievable... Even with the 3.4 update?

    Sure as hell I’m staying on 2.11 until I can spring for a couple of 3000s.
     
  10. Cheef Roberts

    Cheef Roberts NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    197
    There have been no updates to the key lock since 3.2.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. michaelmashup

    michaelmashup New Member

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    9
    I can confirm im on 3.4
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Cheef Roberts

    Cheef Roberts NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    197
    TP3 is marketed as having better keylock and if you watch the youtube review from Phil Morse of Digital DJ tips he uses an early version of TP3 with the then new S4 MK3 and says it is better than TP2. This was before Elastique 3 came out though so maybe the newer key lock is worse than the earlier version? Just a thought
     
  13. wayfinder

    wayfinder NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    147
    could you post a comparison?
     
  14. tomikoo

    tomikoo NI Product Owner

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    26
    Yeah... I've noticed especially the low end having "just a little" to "pretty damn much" degration (goes muddy or a bit thin), depending of track. Sometimes, with some tracks, the high end is accentuated as well.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. michaelmashup

    michaelmashup New Member

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    9
    Is NI listening to these threads??
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Benny Gazit

    Benny Gazit New Member

    Messages:
    6
    The year is 2020 & it’s not cool all this key lock thing...
    NI please hear us
     
  17. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

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    142
    Good question. How can we forward this to support? They need to work on a fix asap, this is simply unacceptable!
     
  18. DJ Flex I

    DJ Flex I NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    180
    It looks like the problem is the way they implemented elastic 3. On theory it should be better, but I also have the feeling it's not. Unfortunately don't have traktor 2 to compare. I guess the best solution for them is to add a setting in Settings which algorithm to use for MasterTempo, probably a lot of people will choose the old one.
     
  19. kokernutz

    kokernutz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    372
    I agree with you about it being a function of elastique 3. An easy test would be to check all the other DJ software that licenses the algorithm and see if you get the same results?

    But I doubt NI would allow you to toggle between v2 and v3. If there were API chages I doubt they would want to merge those back in especially when they are trying to rewrite/refactor a lot of it.
     
  20. DJ Flex I

    DJ Flex I NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    180
    If anyone has both Traktor 2 and Traktor 3 could easy do the test. I don't think it's sounds bad in reasonable values, like up to +-5, but if you plan to do transitions from 28BPM to 90BPM master tempo must be perfect.
    I have a theory, that when they implemented elastique 3, they use the algorithm for performance mode, not for quality, because they don't want to raise CPU usage and get complains about that in the forum. But now, the rest of us with powerful laptops will complain about the quality. Again, why this doesn't have a setting?
    The api has a lot of parameters, pretty sure some of them make the process too heavy for the CPU, but I'm also sure when I do -25% in Ableton it sounds much better with the same algorithm.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2