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Traktor 3.3 effects and upcoming update

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR 3' started by Thomas @ NI, Nov 15, 2007.

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  1. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    7,073

    Good on ya James, glad to see you've got such a solid grasp of the role of outside beta testers in the NI release cycle.
    You're at least partially right, but thanks for your vote of confidence and elevated status all the same, its about as wrong as you can get though. I'm sure all the beta-testers will just be lining up to be your friend.

    Phil
     
  2. sergeramirez

    sergeramirez NI Product Owner

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    Good to see that there is at least one Moderator who actually sees that Traktor definitely has problems that need attention.



    With all due respect Phil, I don't think anyone cares if beta testers will line up to be friends with anyone who complains about them. In my opinion, the Beta Testing team for Traktor does not have a good track record with these releases. Whether it's the Beta Testers fault or the fault of the person in charge of approving these releases, the Beta testers are the ones who are going to get the blame.
    As I wrote before, it's hard to understand how people (Customers) find bugs within the first 24 hours of practically every update of Traktor & Traktor Scratch, bugs that should have definitely been caught by Beta Testers.
    Thats why many of us feel that the Beta Testing group is either incompetent or just not aggressive enough in testing Traktor. It seems as if it is not tested in real DJ environments such as Clubs or mobil work.
     
  3. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

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    2,335
    You need to consider a third possibility: that NI is not sufficiently responsive to the Beta testing team after errors, omissions, and design flaws are reported, and that members of the Beta testing team are not in a position to say this, as (a) they sign NDAs, and (b) they'd like to continue to be on the Beta team if only to keep trying to do some good.

    And no, I am not on the Beta team.
     
  4. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,752
    LOL!

    obviously you never read any of my postings. whateva.
     
  5. The Autobots

    The Autobots New Member

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    agreed.

    in fact, can we have the option of the actual t2 filters from t2?
    for my kind of mixing, they were a lot better, when trying to double drop two tunes together, and switching the basslines between the two on a high pass filter.
    3.2 filters were ok, but not grat.
    3.3 are useless for it. far too much colouration.

    I'm going back to running 2.6 for my tour of australia next week.
     
  6. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    7,073
    Tom please shoot me an Email when you have a chance, I somehow lost yours in a shuffle recently. jplewis01 AT comcast DOT net

    Phil
     
  7. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

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    7,073
    With all due respect, you simply don't understand that as beta testers we are NOT NI release management. We find things, we voice our findings and our opinions, I can also tell you that when required voice is loud and often. At the end of the day the Beta testers do NOT SET THE RELEASE schedule our finding are factored in but we don't make the final call on releases. You don't see many of the testers light it up on the forums much because as Steve indicated they are under NDA and despite the opinion you may hold of the team, their work is invaluable. They no more want to be in the position of being told how to test by yourself that you would of them coming to your work to tell you how to sweep up. And if you did not like the insult, then re-consider what your initial comments were to generate such a statement. I find it highly unlikely the "nail em to the wall" comments made earlier would be made if you were meeting them in person. You might consider having the good grace to act on line as you would in person. Separation of thousands of miles of copper wire does excuse obnoxious behavior.

    Now back to testing. There are any number of things that occurred to precipitate the problems we now face. We're working to address those issues while also continuing to test. We have day jobs real lives and lots of sh!t going on to take care of in addition to testing. You can make all kinds of off the cuff remarks but unless you know the whole you can't presume to know EXACTLY what happened inside NI, and why I can't either. All I know is things did not work out the way they should have and we're trying to fix that.

    We can try to do the right thing and fix whats wrong or stand around like a bunch of demonic schoolboys throwing tantrums and insults. I'm going for the fix whats wrong approach. Less stress and gets actual results.

    Phil
     
  8. bjornlindgren

    bjornlindgren New Member

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    2
    Hi again!

    Thanks for the update!
    I´m thinking of buying Traktor instead of Virtual DJ that I´m using now, but Traktor (downloaded a 30 days free version) does not find my Numark DMC2 in midi setup under preferences. What do i do?

    /Björn
     
  9. sergeramirez

    sergeramirez NI Product Owner

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    167
    Maybe the beta testers are reporting these bugs, but as I wrote, whether it's the Beta Testers fault or the fault of the person in charge of approving these releases, the Beta testers are the ones who are going to get the blame (at least from the users).

    Since I don't know what goes on 'behind the scenes' I comment on what I see, and I see a product with many flaws and stability issues. If it is full of bugs, then I see that it was not properly tested. I don't only lash out on beta testers, but also Native Instruments. If the Beta testing team is reporting bugs to NI and they are being ignored, maybe the beta testers should b!itch a little louder at NI. What is the sense of beta testing it if they are going to ignore the beta testers findings.

    I don't think I'm out of line here, but rather frustrated to the fact that after over a year and a half of owning this product I am worse off now than when I bought it. I'm not just talking about how the effects work, because if I was to use this product without the effects, it still is very unstable and slow.


    You got insulted because I said the beta testers are incompetent, but let me ask you, if you where looking at it from the point of view of the users, not a moderator, and finding all these bugs, wouldn't you think it wasn't being properly tested?
     
  10. boysteve

    boysteve NI Product Owner

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    2,335
    Phil's point, which you continue to miss, is not that the product is not very flawed, but that you are aiming your gun at the wrong target. If GM makes changes to a car and their road-testers say, hey, you can't make this car, it's not safe, it'll crash, there'll be a recall, and GM says, Thanks guys, we're making the car, then it's GM who is responsible and who should get your irate emails. And you don't have to be Einstein to realize it.
     
  11. Dickins

    Dickins NI Product Owner

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    191
    Oooohhh.

    He gunned you man.
     
  12. DJ James Lake

    DJ James Lake NI Product Owner

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    Phil, I don't think these problem are new, with ever release of Trakor for as long as I can remember, there are serious bugs, hence my original post suggesting NI seriously look at the way they beta test, possibly by widening the test team, but something big has to change. But as you clearly stated NI must learn to listen or Traktor will not survive.

    I love Traktor and think its is a killer program without any doubt, but how on earth could the major bugs in the effects slip through. The changes in effects was one of the biggest parts, that and timecode control with the 3.3 release. There are big bugs in both. Surely if they where new parts of the program and new features they should have been tested, tested, tested more than any other features.

    Serato, Virtual DJ and others are hot on the heals and in some areas have certainly flown straight past Traktor (not all admitedly). A year ago Trakor was the most used program seen in clubs round here. Now I am pretty much alone in using it, everyone else I know has switched. If I was NI I would be worried.
     
  13. Timtango

    Timtango Forum Member

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    112
    Hi all

    My first post, but I've been a lurker for some time here. For what it's worth, I've been wanting to make the jump to an all-digital setup since Traktor 2 was launched about 7 years ago or something. I tried a copy then, and the latency was terrible and I had no way to control it effectively (mouse and keyboard doesn't cut it)
    Now many years later I've purchased a copy of Traktor (3.2 when I bought) and I've got a VCI-100.
    On the whole 3.2 worked ok, but there were a few glitches and I was really hoping that 3.3 would give the product the polish it needs to make it feel as dependable as a piece of decent DJ hardware should.
    I had some issues playing out with laptop slowdowns over time in the my set, glitches with the sync function and various other niggles that made me feel like I was fighting with the software.
    Traktor 3.3 is the biggest possible disappointment to me, and I've actually stopped playing with my controller and gone back to CDJs.
    I've got this pile of hardware and software (VCI-100, FA-66, Traktor 3.3 and it just doesn't work properly.
    Why were the effects changed? Why was the layout altered, so that it no longer matches the VCI-100?
    I know the midi controller should be fully assignable, but in this case it isn't so why break it through the software?
    The VCI-100 is helping to sell Traktor as it's the first solid and complete DJ midi controller out there, and I think it's crazy that NI have gone and broken a key piece of functionality.
    Please guys - it's software - make the layout match the hardware that is supporting your software (ie, just make it work like it did when we bought the software) and focus on getting the bugs out of the system.
    You might sell the software on features, but you keep your customers with quality, and right now the quality seems to be going backwards.
     
  14. Dickins

    Dickins NI Product Owner

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    191
    Here, Here!

    Fix the software back to how it was regarding the effects layout.

    And also implement the changes that PhilL pointed out earlier.

    Shame on you NI...
     
  15. Timtango

    Timtango Forum Member

    Messages:
    112

    Yep. And software shouldn't have bugs, and never crash, and paying users should be respected, but we know not all of this happens.

    I agree, it's an unfortunate design decision that Vestax took in sharing some of the buttons, and NI have done them no favours by exposing this problem.
    But don't forget that NI have only just released their tutorial DVD, and all the videos and effects section tutorials show the 3.2 layout (matching the VCI-100 layout of course)

    Why change the layout? What's wrong with giving users the option of the new effects in the old layout? Why force users to change when they:
    1. Have learnt to use the software in a certain way in a live environment
    2. Own hardware that is closely (admittedly, inflexibly) coupled to the way the software was designed
    3. Have bought the NI tutorial DVD that shows the old effect layout.

    NI obsoleted their own DVD in a matter of a few months.
    What a joke!

    It looks to me like extreme arrogance, and a gross disrespect to customers.
    I'm ditching 3.3 tonight and going back to 3.2
    At least the layout was better.
    And I'll keep an eye out for an alternative that will work well with my hardware....
     
  16. sergeramirez

    sergeramirez NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    167
    I'll repeat this for the fourth time, whether it's the Beta Testers fault or the fault of the person in charge of approving these releases, the Beta testers are the ones who are going to get the blame (at least from the users).

    I understand Phil's point, I did not miss it. I am talking from a users point of view, which includes many users on this forum blaming the beta testers. I also said they (Beta Testers) should b!tch a little louder to NI if they are reporting bugs and they are getting overlooked.
     
  17. AudioRapture

    AudioRapture NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,892
    The VCI-100 isn't the /only/ controller on the market. Yes, it is very successful, but what it comes down to is that the limitations of the VCI-100 are *not* NI's problem.

    Unfortunately, I have to agree with this for the time being.
     
  18. buggles

    buggles NI Product Owner

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    320
    Concerning the new effects section I think NI is trying to stay in line with the future of this game; really poor timing though and they really botched the effects up too. Duh!

    Meanwhile Vestax didn't think about what a MIDI controller is really all about - assigning parameters to controllers.

    Get it together for crying out loud! People are trying to make a living with your products - do the right thing, even if it takes a while and makes you less money or whatever!
     
  19. bobjones

    bobjones Forum Member

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    21
    I just wanted vinyl control for 3.2...
     
  20. DJ James Lake

    DJ James Lake NI Product Owner

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    280
    Same here
     
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