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Discussion in 'TRAKTOR 3' started by Thomas @ NI, Nov 15, 2007.
As well as having the NMX issues addressed and improved
Double same here but with everything I have read about 3.3 I'm sticking with my VCI-100 and 3.2 for the time being.
Now I'm mad as hell. We are all screaming for 3.3. to be fixed and WHAT COMES ALONG.....A FLAMING TRAKTOR SCRATCH UPDATE.
Fix 3.3 and fix it fast, concentrate your effort stop messing around.
After discussing it with Phil I'm reporting my problem here to see if others are affected by it aswell...
I have constant audio drop outs using T3.3 (win) on my Clevo/Albacomp notebook with a firewire Echo Audiofire 2 and a VCI-100. Investigating my case showed that the source of my problem is between the newly implemented battery meter in 3.3 and the ACPI battery of my notebook. If i disable the later than everything goes back to normal (with T3.2 it was like that by default). Even though this is a workarround for the problem, I would like to have a customizable status bar or an option to disable the battery meter completly from Traktor. If you have audio drop outs aswell after upgrading to 3.3 than try disabling the ACPI battery in device manager and please report your results here so NI can see it's a real problem.
I haven't read alot of forums but from what I have gathered here I can tell that this software and its users is a pretty HOT combination. I am really happy that I bought Traktor 3 two years ago. Ive been playing with it ever since and the abilities that it has given me with my digital media have surpassed all my wildest ideas i had about mixing samples when I was working with records, DAW, and tape ten years ago.
When I heard de9 closer to the Edit I phreaked out literally. I put the Cd on at a party i was playing and just did spoken word over the top of the beats. I was pretty excited about this technologey and i think I even lost my voice that night from screaming about it oh and i also blew up a set of monitors. Anyway. My point is that there is alot of technologey that will still be developed for this paradigm. Im really glad that there is a group of people who are so fired up about things and trying to get it right and even going for each others throats in the process. This makes me really happy. And it gives me alot of hope that the ideas I have about this technologey and its possabilities will someday be realized. If you have the time -- look at what DIGI-DEsign was doing back in the eighties. And what has come about from that head of steam. You are all apart of it and your ideas and fire can and will create great things in the future.
This is so Sweeeeeet.. Keep the Energy up everyone. You are pusching the loca-motive out ahead.
way to rise above it all! now you wanna come down here and lend a *@#king hand? haha just playing,
you have a good point, the furor over NI mistakes are really just growing pains. expensive, frustrating, time consuming growing pains that make our lives miserable so that future generations may one day enjoy what we helped to build.
I completely agree with these comments as well.
I brought both the VCI-100 and the tutorial DVD, and it is really really really frustrating that the effects not only no longer work effectively from a sound perspective, and it is even worse that the layout is completely changed!
Can someone please confirm that the upcoming update will or will not address the layout issue, and if not - a good reason why? This is really not a cool situation.
exactly my story:bought TS Scratch, TS 3.x, VCI-100 and the Tutorial DVD. And now - it's a shame!
Traktor 3, Traktor Scratch, Traktor Tutorial DVD, Vestax VCI-100.
In that order.
Sort it out!
so it looks like I wasn't the only one taken for a fool..
..by buying the Traktor Tutorial DVD..
I see NI are still pushing it from the website.
Should probably have a disclaimer - "This DVD was created for an older version of Traktor and some sections will not be relevant to the current version of the software".
Another thing that I was hoping to see fixed in 3.3 is the glitches with the waveform display.
I was putting down some beatgrids last night and got so frustrated with the display problems I gave up after about a dozen tracks.
Does anyone else have problems with the waveform display going very granular and losing all detail if you click around in it?
I'm on a Mac.
I'll take some screenshots later and post them..
Whats good for Traktor Scratch is also good for DJ Studio, they both share the same core code base. So, when they update Scratch, the update for 3.3 won't be far behind.
Also, unless you are a programmer and understand the complications and obstacles to writing a cutting edge real time software package like this, it might serve you well to tone it down a bit. We are all in the same boat as you, it's just that a lot of us have a different outlook on how horrible the situation really is.
IMO, Traktor is the cutting edge in DVS systems at the moment, even with the bug fixes that are needed, using any other package would be taking a step back.
No I'm not a programmer and I really dont care what is involved. I am a customer who has paid for the software. You can have the best programmers in the world but if you dont have customers it counts for Jack.
IMO I too believe Traktor is one of the the best systems in the world also, but unless they sort the problems and sort them soon customers will drop like flies.
Surely the point is that they are fixing it? Development has moved to beta and hopefully all the remaining bugs will fall out there..... C'MON BETA TESTERS - YOU DON'T NEED SLEEP!
Soon this will all be forgotten (yes, my fingers are crossed) - I am sure NI are doing everything they can - Afterall, they are a business, and want to make loadsa cash - you do that by keeping your customers. Can we all wait till 3.3.1 before we throw our toys out the pram?
Let me start by saying... whoooo...
just finished reading 4 pages of forum... and this is what I saw...
60% was flame (bash on NI/Mods)...
30% constructive concerns...
5% productive assistance (debugging)...
(the lack of equaling 100% is due to brain cells killed during this excercise)
Please... I beg people posting to the forum, please help the mods help us.
-Flame wars only result in killed brain cells of reads.
-If you have a concern (and you feel others have it too), try to suggest a solution that will better the program.
-If you feel there is a better product out there... use it! No one is stopping you!
The below comment are not flame... simple an opinion of ONE user. Take them as such!
-Braane... GREAT contribution. I personally want to say thank you for not only taking an extra minute to not only reason out the problem and make sure it wasn't local to just you, but also for HELPING the mods (and in the end, me!)... Thank you!
-Signaturex... Much needed post IMO.
-People concerned with BETA testers... NG has this one nailed... but let me throw some food for thought. There are 20ish produce lines that NI sales. There are PCs/Mac (with MANY versions each... OS X, Vista, Vista 64 Bit, XP, XP SP1, SP2... etc). There are a BUNCH of sound cards. There are a TON of hardware configerations (Int/Ext Mixer, 1-x Chan Mixers, Mixers w/ and w/o Effects onboard, TT/CDJ, etc). There are an INDEFINATE music genre's and styles (of which different features are used differently). Even if BETA testers were always listened to, do you really think they could catch everything? Also remember, BETA testers are not the decision makes nor are they the only QA step.
- specification (mods pass along info to corp who them choose which are most important)
- development (a programmer who most likely doesn't DJ implements based on above)
- beta testing (a possible DJ tries to find issues with recent changes that were thought to be important enough to test. Each beta tester may only test on one setup/computer/OS/etc.)
- final testing (same as above... but specs are re-written, re-dev'ed, and attempted to be re-tested)
Not an easy process to simply kick out the door w/o even more people being upset than already are (whether due to not having the feature added or whether a bug snuck in). As stated... this was merely food for thought... not an exact layout.
-People concerned with the VCI-100... I can understand you concern with the changes (heck, my VCI-100 is coming tomorrow... woohoo!) However, from what I've read on other threads, these changes were being asked for by other members. In addition, a "work-around" has been suggested for the issue (thank you for those who posted that BTW... will be helpful personally). Please note I put "work-around" in quotes... yes, re-training yourself to hit key 4 rather than 1 is annoying (especially when this wasn't in a release docs), it is not the end of the world. I would also suggest keeping an eye on Ean Golden's pages as he usually posts suggestions for the VCI-100 (as he uses it)... a good example is his arcade mod for the unit (kinda cool idea... makes sense for SOME).
-People concerned with Effects... YES... there were decision goofs made here by the powers that be. However, these have been admitted on several occassions since 3.3's release. As such, no more complaining is needed... let's suggest solutions! (my fav included... adding another option labeled "fader 3.2"... allow selection of algorythms between 3.2/3.3... waiting until next make version to change these... etc). These are suggestions/opinions that NG/Phil/Quartz can voice for us.
-People asking why waste time on Scratch integration... Sit back and think about this for a moment... if they integrate TS into DJS, there is less duplicate code to manage. As such, less bugs are missed, there are less programs versions to BETA test, and the end users have more flexiblity. From what I can tell by there current x-mas offer (get TDJS free with TS), they are combining the two product lines! THIS IS A GOOD THING!
We all have things we want a certain way in this product (i.e. I would like some BPM issues to be resolved), however, this product was not made JUST for one of us... rather the whole. Now I know someone is going to say, "Wouldn't the whole want a stable product were everything worked right?" Of course they would, however, this is not how the software/hardware industry works. For you PC users, are you saying that Window's never crashes? For you MAC users, you paid an extra penny for the stablity you have. Remember, out of the 3 categories of design (done fast, done cheap, done well), you are lucky to get two.
- If you like the product but think something needs to be added, then see if others agree. There is a whole thread on feature requests (I have posted some myself). If enough people say, "Yeah, that would be nice!", then it becomes a issue of that WE (the community) wants this... and it is more likely to get done.
- If you like the product but think there's a bug, then try to figure out where the bug is. There is a whole thread on bug reporting where you can put down some details about your concerns (and your proposed solution). "The effects suck!" statements don't help the MODs help us.
- If you don't like the product/company, then don't buy it (this includes upgrading to 3.3 instead of keeping 3.2). You buy a product because you like what it offers (and how it works). How many (please don't answer) of you return a DVD because you thought the movie sucked?
Suggestion: Do NOT go by a product/movie as soon as it comes out, wait for a review first! This is a good suggestion for any product... but an especially good one if your business relies on!
If you've gotten to this point... thank you for reading through MY opinion (sorry about the length). If you do/don't agree with MY opinion, send ME a private message about it. (Heck, if I found your message moving, I can always edit this post!)
Good luck fellow DJ's... may the music never stop!
(BTW, if someone sends me a comment about Traktor crashing cause the music to stop... you will be sacked!)
I'm sympathetic, but still dissatisfied
Thanks for the positive spin, but I still feel like I've been swindled out of my money. The product does not reliably do what it's supposed to, and the incremental fixes have impacted negatively on existing features.
I recognize the complexity, but these are not really problems that the customer should bear.
If the testing process is not catching obvious issues, then the process needs to be addressed.
Are the beta testers DJing long sets and using the features?
I find it hard to believe that the issues uncovered (effects, slowdowns) and the usability problems introduced (eg VCI-100 layout problems) would not have been picked up if the software had been used by testers who play out using Traktor.
But we've been through this before, so I'll simply leave that there as my opinion.
I'm not about to take a soldering iron to a controller to make it work better with a piece of software. That's fine for some, but ridiculous for most.
The match between 'reality' (the controller) and the software used to be perfect. Now it doesn't match anymore.
The software has changed. So in my opinion, that's where the fault lies. Vestax needs to shoulder some of the blame here for a poor design decision, but once again, any decent testing should have shown NI that the layout changes would have a serious negative impact on users who had bought Traktor and the VCI-100 for the tight integration of the 2 interfaces.
I'm pretty sour on this too... my understanding was that when the Scratch integration happened, I would be able to pick up a Scratch-certified mixer or Audio-8 interface and start using vinyl/CD control.
The reality is that I need 2 software licenses to make this happen. What's the point? for 4-deck mixing? How many customers are really using this?
And the offer is typical of a company that is trying to sell new licenses but doesn't really care about existing customers.
It's great that new customers can get Traktor DJ for free when they buy Scratch, but what about existing Scratch customers? What about existing Traktor DJ customers?
What do they get - how are they rewarded for being early adopters/guinea-pigs?
It's not acceptable to say 'deal with it, software is unstable'.
NI are competing with the likes of Technics SL's and Pioneer CDJ's - in the pro space these stuff-ups are not acceptable.
I'm going to have to accept that I made the jump to all-digital too early, and keep and eye on the software until it matures a little more. Until then back to CD?
i'm very sorry to hear this but this was pretty clear beforehand. it has been asked here in the board a dozen times before the release of T33, too. this one you cannot blame NI for, nobody said that T33 alone would be enough.
i'm using 3 decks. the other KILLER argument (IMHO) are the extended loop functions of T33 compared to TS. there are other sweeties, too, but these are my main points.
hey, dont mix things up - this is a special christmas offer available in a limited time. many other companies do similar stuff.
NI has usually once per year some action like that. sometimes it's concerning traktor too, sometimes it's not.
well, i made the jump to the digital world 5 years ago and never regretted it...
Native_girl, I appreciate your posts on this board, and your unflagging enthusiasm is sometimes a nice counterpoint to the grumbling.
I missed the detail on the integration between Traktor and Traktor Scratch, and (incorrectly) understood that vinyl control was a feature coming to Traktor. I suppose more accurately, the 2 products work together, but you need to own both.
But at this point I wish I had spent less money on NI products and have no intention of buying TS so that I can get access to the vinyl control method.
I don't know why you're saying I'm 'mixing things up' when I point to the special offer for new users.
I think it's a further indication that NI:
- is focussed more on Scratch and Scratch customers than Traktor
- are not too concerned about keeping existing customers happy
Why is there no cross-grade the other way? Look at the pricing of the Traktor Scratch upgrade. If you already own Traktor 3.3 and an Audio 8, paying $339 for the upgrade makes no sense.
I've worked for many years in a company that focusses on subscriber management, and it's a basic, basic principle that when you make an offer to new customers to close new deals, you need to have something in the market for your existing customers.
It's simply how you build loyalty amongst existing customers.
At the moment I think Traktor has a lead over the competition because the product offers more sophisticated features than the rest.
But I don't think there is any great love for NI amongst customers, and serious efforts should be made to look after early adopters.
i understand if this may be seen so, but i know it isnt. traktor is the mothership of it all, but this year there was a stress on TS, surely. one reason is, it's new and has to break into the market as new cat. the other reason is that many DJs waited for TS to come and are now happy. but it's still traktor, which is the main thing.
that would be really dumb, isnt it
i agree that the upgrade price in this direction should be lower, but i didnt make these - however, i had already mourned about this some months ago.
To Native Girl - I've read many of your posts on these forums and I find them honest, direct and they clearly reflect your position as both a big traktor fan and somewhat of an NI insider. This is a good thing. Your voice is far more refreshing than much of the childish moaning of late - i.e. a number of posts where moderators like you are forced to remove insults - NOT COOL! So, a wee thanks from me for keeping it real.
While I own T33 and TS, the issue raised by TimTango regarding a reverse crossgrade is very valid. Perhaps this is something you could raise again, given your position? I can imagine a number of people would be in this position but I'm only guessing - something for the marketing analysts to look into perhaps?
Early adopters are too often a group that can be ignored - I am not saying NI do this but it does happen in many businesses. it's understandable why it happens - demand creation is not required where the product has already been sold. That said, Loyalty enhancement is a trick not to be missed.
And yeah, NI's marketing is no different from anyone else, sometimes you buy and an offer comes along making you wish you had waited. Sometimes you can take advantage of it. C'est la vie in my opinion. Early adopters are still worth considering though.
Given that final testing is upon us -- 3 days for beta testing? Seriously? Did the testers sleep?
I guess I was right....