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Traktor 3.4 - Thoughts...Questions...etc

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR 3' started by chilly, Jul 24, 2008.

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  1. TeLLy

    TeLLy NI Product Owner Extraordinaire

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    6,430
    Taking both my lappies out for a big long wedding tonight. I should blah blah blah it for a while but I imagine it will blablabla perfectly until I close off the night with blablabla, mashed up over blablabla (blabber bla remix). Anyone wanna blablabla afterward? Cause bla in the blabla blablablabberblabla. Blablablablabla *weird farting noise* blablabla.
     
  2. chilly

    chilly Returning Customer

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    3,102
    I think it's about time I responded to this thread I started.

    My intent wasn't that people would respond in here complaining about issues that they have personally with the 3.4 update...there is a seperate forum section for that.

    I was trying to give a higher-level view of the problem in versioning as a whole in regards to 3.4, but more for Traktor life cycle management in general.

    ...Moving on...

    We can all agree that I am somewhat of 'the @sshole' on this board. I can't stand people who come on here whining and complaing about problems that they can obviously figure out themselves.

    I have NO affiliation with NI, other than I've donated a bunch of money to them over the years for a product that I generally enjoy and use all the time.

    Native_Girl's response was 100% in line (in my opinion) with what I was thinking back when the post was made. There's only so much you can read when people just write "3.4 SUX and SSL IS THE R0XX0R!" ...and nothing more. If you can't contribute meaningful posts when the time calls for it, don't.

    Whether or not you expected that type of response from her is one thing...but look at the bigger picture here and just see if you can sympathize.

    yadda yadda yadda...I hate self righteous n00bs (not calling you a n00b at all, or hating). lol
     
  3. SeanMF83

    SeanMF83 Forum Member

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    54
    NativeGirl,

    Is there a bug list being developed that can be published publicly? Overall I'm enjoying some of the improvements of 3.4, however, there are bugs that need to be addressed (some more important than others.)

    Personally, I'd love to see a sticky bug list update post (that is closed to prevent it spamming up with junk.) As an end user, I would rather the company list known bugs rather than hide them and have to read everyone complain about the same items.

    Also, is there any information regarding a sub-update (3.4.1.x)? I'm assuming its in the works.
     
  4. jeremygray

    jeremygray NI Product Owner

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    87
    ;)

    Glad to hear that it is working for you. Honestly! It isn't like I'm looking for people to have trouble so that I can rag on NI. I'm just calling it like I see it.

    ---

    @chilly - no worries, mate. We're all just trying to see this product be its best. I just seem to be a bit more willing to call out unprofessional behaviour, that's all. ;) In all seriousness for a moment, no matter what she was responding to, in many companies a response like hers would result in dismissal or at least immediate reprimand. It doesn't matter what you might have said or how you said it, it is her _job_ to respond professionally.

    As for being a n00b, how does being a Traktor user since 1.0 sound? ;)
     
  5. chilly

    chilly Returning Customer

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    3,102
    a) Native_Girl and Quartz are NOT NI employees...sorry for not stating that in my original post :)

    I can understand what you are saying though :)

    and b)...I said I wasn't calling you a n00b! LOL
     
  6. jeremygray

    jeremygray NI Product Owner

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    87
    @chilly - Native_Girl represents NI with the full blessing of and support from NI, so the argument stands.

    Enough of this for the moment.

    In other news, it's Friday so let's all party! :D
     
  7. wild_andy_c

    wild_andy_c Forum Member

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    228
    @jeremygray

    Feed from chilly don't attack - Nativegirl was right in her posts - she has no control over the program, just perhaps a more direct way of bug reporting, and she's not responsible for reporting our bugs - we are!
     
  8. Sargie

    Sargie NI Product Owner

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    29
    Couple of responses:

    1. My spec:

    Dual Core 2.4GHZ Intel Processors
    8GB Ram
    64 Bit Vista Ultimate with Service Pack 1
    Geforce 8800 GTS Video Card
    Soundmax Audio Card
    4 Terrabytes of HD Space

    This should be (and has always proven to be) ample enough to run Traktor and pretty much anything else glitch free if the software isn't buggy or incompatible in some fashion.

    2. What is the "correct" place to post the crash reports?

    3. Why are the crash reports in a custom format that it appears only Native Instruments can read? This makes no sense and is prohibiting me from taking any steps to remedy the problem myself.

    4. Personally, I am sick of functioning as unpaid quality assurance for Native Instruments. As a PAYING CUSTOMER who has spent a lot of money on this supposedly PROFESSIONAL PRODUCT I am rather fed up with the way that upgrading to the latest revision is ALWAYS a hit a miss affair in terms of the quality and stability of the upgrade. I used to be a professional DJ back in the 90's in London (now I just dabble for the fun of it) and I can honestly the say that if I were a Pro today I would be extraordinarily cautious about using Traktor in a live setting and would never use a recent upgrade live until I had tested it at home for at least 10 hours without problems first. This is a real shame because when it works Traktor is a great product.

    Native Instruments technical support has been less than helpful in the past when I have bothered to contact them and most issues I've had with the software have either been fixed by my own fiddling about, from discussion on this forum or just had to be lived with until (or if) they get fixed in the next revision (which usually means something else gets broken or changed for the worse).

    I have had to revert to the previous version (again!) and am adopting a policy of not upgrading the software on my main machine ever again until I have tested it on another machine first. This is an appalling state of affairs. I can only compare Traktor to the other music software I use which is Propellerhead Reason, a program I have owned since version1. I can't remember this program crashing on me once, nor can I ever remember being disappointed by an upgrade because it changed core functionality for the worse. In my opinion, Native Instruments should take a look at how Propellerheads develop and maintain Reason and learn lessons from them from how it should be done.

    It may be a "dumb generalization" to say there Traktor is inherently unstable or problematic and perhaps the majority of people have had a stable and happy Traktor experience but I haven't and I am fed up with it. I will be looking long and hard at alternatives to Traktor in the future.
     
  9. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,116

    sorry.. i realize now that I was looking at another spec when i was addressing your situation.. Im not a paid endorser so I can make mistakes right.. excuse.mi

    and... I may not be exactly informed on this subject butttt.. I think at one point NI hired abunch of Propellarhead's tech and design people.. food for thought.

    also @chilly Iim glad you are stepping up to the A$shole plate .. as I was sure that iM the biggest one here.. and now Im totally not alone. awwww kiss kiss kisssss.....
     
  10. wild_andy_c

    wild_andy_c Forum Member

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    228
    It all seems a little bit crisper, BUT there are issues for the general 3.3 stable user.

    Sometimes i have to power down VCI 100 start traktor, power up VCI 100 and reselct it in midi settings to prevent traktor from locking up on startup. It seems that by adding MIDI controller hotplug they have created a problem. If you add a feature - don't add a problem associated with it. Create a fix not a bodge.

    In terms of audio processing yes it does seem more efficient so should be better instead of worse for people with a slower processor BUT NOT WITH LESS MEMORY WHO EXPERIENCED PROBLEMS IN 3.3.

    After having a public BETA for a period, I expected a lot of 3.4 and I didn't try it as a user of 3.3LE and subsequently 3.3 Full, but I am left as a lowly VCI 100 user as thinking it has done me an injustice for its hot plug bug. A free downgrade I have had.

    It seems similar to me paying Lenovo to downgrade Vista to XP, and similar to the plight of Scratch users being thrown aside due to the actions of Stanton.

    Should we be progressing forwards or assisting the needs of a corporation ?
     
  11. lexUK

    lexUK Forum Member

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    25
    Unfortunately this IS the level of support at NI.
     
  12. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

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    2,116
    Another thought on this :

    When 3.3 was released, this forum exploded with about fifteen million instances of negative 3.3 jargoon and comments about how it was unstable and much inferior to the standard and workable 3.2. I find it humorous that users are referencing 3.3 as the standard now and saying that 3.4 is a piece of crap and buggy etc.

    I have to say that I was having tons of problems running 3.3 on my computer and I quote myself from a post <circa july 2007. 3.3 is a disaster for me Im rolling back to 3.2. Which is what I did and I worked with it while testing releases of 3.3 until I finally streamlined the build to suit my set-up.

    During this time I also combed and trolled on this forum and got into huge 'discussions' (a letter to the traktor3 community and native instruments) on the nature of NI and its treatment of its software and constituent customers. That discussion turned into a percievable disaster when a long time user and forum member, who had sequestered themselves in using traktor 2.5 because of upgrade problems, decided to publically denounce the forum. Based on pro-NI users defense of the system. I personally felt horrible that my posative outlook on the software and defense of NI's continuous but slow development of it would ruin someones forum experience. . . but I guess thats what happened. And Ive had to reach out to my darker side and personify that user with the traits of a scandolous sheep dog who is my ladey. Otherwise I just get all way to emotional about the whole thing. >for cryin out loud<

    I also have tried to help as many new users with problems as possible. And that has helped me immensely in my own use of the software and getting it to work correctly for me. Reading the manual over an over has revealed many of its most important facts. > Thanks NG :cool:

    Focusing on the problems of the software and thier "unfixed" state has somewhat detrimented my thoughs for creative expansion of of its capabilities, which disturbs me, I would much rather be posting and blabbing about a certain off the wall feature request than complaining all the time or arguing with chronic complainers. Judging from the state of complaints and thier tone that is "mirroring of the transition from 3.2 to 3.3. I surmise that> traktor upgrades are buggy don't play out wth them until they are fixed in another release. Thats really simple, and don't get emotionally involved within discussions of audio software parameters. It only proves that one has somehow become psychologically overextended upon thier material possessions. Basically getting pissed off becuase a virtual mixing device isn't working only proves that I have no life .. admittadly .. but I have other Ideas too so tell myself to stick it.

    prudence.
     
  13. The Syndrome

    The Syndrome NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    267
    Well, the issues I have with 3.4 (dropout) I can work around for the time being (usually happens once within the first two minutes of a set).

    I set up my VCIs to try out the four deck scenario. The deck sync only works as follows:-

    Deck A <-> B

    Deck C < - > D

    I cannot get deck D to sync to B or A or C to sync with B or A and vice versa.

    Not sure if this is the forum to post issues with Audio Kontol 1 but it is also causing me problems. My PCs do not shut down with the AK1 connected to the USB.

    Probably the most annoying issue for me is that I use HP and LP filters. If they are switched on but not being used, the thru does not sound the same as the source. There seems to be a boost in both high and low frequencies.

    Although the work around may be to switch them off when not in use it is just another thing that I have to remember during a gig.
    ---
    At the end of the day dude, we have paid for professional software. DJ software is a time critical as no-one wants software causing issues during a gig. Quite frankly, if it is released it should work. I appreciate that there are many variables, PC, Memory, sound cards etc nevertheless, professional software should do exactly what it says on the tin and should work with the recommended specs listed on the box. Lets look at the last years development history, what are the real feature enhancements that have taken place? shouldn't they have been there in the firstplace? IT seems to me that the last year development has been related to bug fixing. Am I alone in thinking and feeling this way?

    Do we really need to be saying "sorry boss, my software is dodgy, i'll bring my CDs next week"!
     
  14. SeanMF83

    SeanMF83 Forum Member

    Messages:
    54
    Syndrome/Signaturex,

    I apprecate both your stand points on the issue and suggest a middle ground.

    I've posted previously in this thread regarding positive directions I see NI heading (Scratch integration allows for a common code source to work on, Audio Processing updates and Unicoding allows for reuseable code rather than having several special versions.) My guess is that the senior designer most likely changed (or someone convinced him) that the core items need to be updated and integrated to save time in the long run.

    On the other side, I too do agree that doing a public BETA w/o fixing the bugs being reported is a little sloppy. It is a little slap in the face to "listen" but not do anything.

    With that said, I do wish that the forums would stop whining about the same issues and NI's lack of "ability". All filling the forum with these items does is waste people's time. At this point, I wish there was a thread which was limited to bug reports (and all other items would be removed.) I would like to be able to see the concerns and people's responses on possible solutions without having to read pages of whining.

    Anyway, this will be the last time I post a message like this as I don't want to fill this thread (and I have see some positive info on this thread). Please forgive my use of "whining" in this post.

    If you don't like what I said, message me... not the thread.
     
  15. chilly

    chilly Returning Customer

    Messages:
    3,102
    Signaturex, Syndrome, SeanMF83


    --- Your posts hit the nail on the head. Exactly the type of conversation I was hoping to inspire. Thanks!
     
  16. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,752
    as stated, this was directed to the generalization "T34 doesnt work at all". this is just not the case. i'm feeling sorry for everyone who has issues and am always trying to help - but i hate this generalizations that are never true.

    please note also that i'm not part of the tech support team of NI. i'm forums moderator, yes, and in constant contact with NI, yes, but in the first lane i'm using traktor as a DJ, just like everyone here and as this person (me, myself and i) i'm talking like i'm everyday talking to everyone. i'm not as harsh as i sound sometimes :)
     
  17. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,752
    2 things here...

    a) is traktor supported to run on a 64bit vista?
    b) how big is your collection?

    send them to the official NI tech support. link in my signature.

    sure. no one should.
     
  18. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    Messages:
    26,752
    that's by design. use master/ slave to sync non-opposite decks.
     
  19. The Syndrome

    The Syndrome NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    267
    Thanks for that NG, will give it a go..

    Tschüss
     
  20. kourampies

    kourampies Forum Member

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    208
    been using 3.4 for a few days, with a minimal gui setup that resembles traktor scratch. (my audio8 has a broken input B, so i must reroute in/out for scratch)

    its faster, and i love the unicode support, BUT every 2-3 minutes the GUI lock ups for half a second or something like that (thank god the sound continues normaly), and that scares the crap out of me :(

    never had that with traktor scratch 1.2 or traktor 3.3.
     
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