Traktor 3 MACTEL Universal Binaries Beta Test

No probs... Who gets to be Mr T. ???

Phil

 

hi Phil,

have you read my mail ?

cheers
_sven

/edit: sorry, yes you did ;-)

 

another beta delay... i´m starting to go deeper into other UB DJ programms... if they don´t hurry there might be users that won´t go the way "back" to traktor....

another question:

why do users that have been using and buying NI products have to pay for a compatibility update and new users don´t have to. to me i feel kind of punished for using an NI product for a long time and not recently have decied to buy one. don´t know if these words were the right one to discribe the fact, but maybe someone else does feel so,too and understands.


hear u in november...

cheers

 

I think the problem is more that users don't feel there is enough value in the upgrade to pay for it.

A lot of other software companies released new versions (with more or similar features) that you had to upgrade to (for a fee) if you wanted UB. Of course, *everyone* had to pay that fee. And typically, that new version wasn't just a "bugfix" but introduced new features.
Other companies give "grace periods" of 1-3 months before release date of a new version to new customers to upgrade for free or significantly discounted.
Either way, the path needs to be clearly communicated.

Unfortunately, Traktor has a history of being a bit unpredictable in terms of when an upgrade is for free, and when it isn't (e.g. 2.5 -> 2.6 was *not* free, but 3.0->3.1->3.2 *will* be free for Win and Mac/PPC users).

Overall dilemma is that software doesn't write itself, you have to pay people to write it. Of course, customers expect (rightly so) to get bugfixes for free, and also expect "significant" new features (rightly so) if they are to pay for an update.
[Note: Each customer has one or more opinions on what constitutes "significant".]

At the end, unlike other software companies, NI does *not* have a monopoly, you have a choice: You can vote with your wallet.

Overall, I think Traktor's Product Management might need a do-over (keyword: roadmap), unfortunately that doesn't help in the short term.
What *can* help is you voicing your concerns at NI *directly*, not just on the users forum.

 

same to me, i received my 'Torq' yesterday and it's preety cool.

 

Yes it is, isn't it! ;-)

 

I purchased torq as well and am liking it the hardware also works as a front end for pro tools. I couldn't play under windows one more night so torq it is. I don't care for the look of the software but I think feature to feature it matches up to dj studio pretty well. It does suck that I had to abandon traktor because I do love it but I kind of feel abandoned by traktor. What sucks is mactel FS users have not only been stuck in the cold by NI but Stanton as well. I would mostly like to see NI release their software with support for any (or at least most) soundcards without losing the ability to do tt emulation. If you look at mix vibes it works with any sound card and has tt emulation, however only runs in windows

 

NI Aboandoned you? What twak this is! Delayed yes, not by weeks but months and that sucks big-time for those of us that have MacTels that don't yet have a workable OSX platform solution from NI at present, its a totall pi$$ser Yes we are still spinning wheels waiting. Waiting does NOT equate to Abandoned!

As Friedemann, N.G. and Florian can atest, I have made them aware that the delay is proving costly in light of Torq getting generally good reviews across the board. Having seen Torq in action I can see why people like it. Its pretty impressive and what makes it emminently attractive is the fact its here now!

The downside for Traktor is the TORQ has a hardware component and users lost from Traktor to Torq will be much harder to entice back without a compelling reason. My belief is that the MacTel delays have and will come with a sizeable penalty in lost users thast will be hard to bring back. At the other end of this though, as is always the case in software and hardware development.... 'Do you want it now or when its done right?' We'll all say 'I want stability above all else', and you rightly hear that statement often here, Its also one I agree with in good measure. You continue to hear it right up to the point, where a product is delayed and users are feeling penalized. What you often here at this point is 'screw it, just gimme the code damn it' and you hear that right up to the point the first nasty bug pops up and then all of a sudden the mantra changes to 'you suck, this is crap - this software should be stable above all else'. And so goes the constant revolving door. There is a middle ground you can hold on these two that can work. Finding it, establishing yourself there and holding it is a challenge.
Would I like to have seen you guys running MacTel code by now? Hell Yes!!! But we aren't there yet and the price is being paid all round.

Now as to the real Twak in the message and this is where it gets truly tiresome for me at least.
"I couldn't play under windows one more night so torq it is."
Let me put words in your mouth you didn't say and parphrase the hell out of your statements, because it seem so friggin idiotic (to me at least).

Hi I'm a Mac and thats a PC operating system I have on me, It's strange and doesn't look or feel like a Mac. It makes things I try to do awkward, but it does make Traktor totally screeam and since its the only thing I use windows for and I run Traktor fullscreen its kind of O.K. But I'm still pissed of though, because any number of Multimedia functions done under this Windows infestation really and totally scream along. This not all what my conditioning has led me to believe. I hate the interface but the guts works O.K. I've been conditioned in Zealotry 101 to hate all things Windows so I'm just going to be subjective as hell about this and get Windows off my system so my friends stop giving me a bad time about wearing this damn virus magnet albatross! Ultimately I'm going to go from an awful UI that I hate but never see anyway because I only run Traktor on it, to having no really workable solution at all and I'll have to spend $300 on different hardware & software that at least allows me to feel good about the fact I own a Mac and have managed to convince myself windows itself is the root of all my problems.

I can absolutely understand users desires to stay in OSX, and dual booting while OK, is a hassle, if you are trying to do multiple things at once. I can understand users being frustrated that long promised software is yet to grace your hard drive. I can also understand users not wanting to fork out the dollars for an O/S and other support software they will barely use. What I find ludicrous is the dog in the manger approach some people take where they will suffer with subpar performance. They can run Windows but won't, because to run windows is sick and evil. It also shows that while some of the worst O/S bias notions might be true, others, especially key performance ones aren't, That is something many Mac people are simply NOT willing to conceed, is true even in the face of incontraverible evidence.

Bottom line, Traktor on Windows XP on Mactel laptop hardware is about the most performant Traktor system you'll see today. Best Performing UI, Lowest latency, fastest analyzing, fastest collection loading, fastest startup and when running full screen, nobody knows its XP underneath anyways.

This rant in case you haven't yet worked out, is NOT a Winders is better than OSX thing (so don't go there). Neither O/S have any over-arching objective Technical advantage over each other. Its directed at the fairly small number of users that despite compelling data that shows Windows and Traktor is an excellent solution in the meantime till MacTel OSX suport for Traktor exists, would rather complain about having nothing. As I've said, there are good objective reasons for NOT using this approach, I do NOT consider a sickened shudder against the thought of Windows to be objective in any way shape or form.

What this rant also ISN'T, is a rally against Torq. Its a good competitive solution and raises the standards for DJ apps to step up to. One hope for all of this is that Traktor users who get Torq stay involved here, and idnentify key functions in Torq that Traktor lacks but needs, and brings that to the table here.

FWIW I sit here writing this my McBook Pro, running Vista RC2 plus patches as its ONLY operating system, no OSX, no Bootcamp. Traktor 3.1.3 runs flawlessly at 2.0 MSec latency, and a mate scratched up a storm on it on an XP10 yesterday. I am seeing the need to get another GB of Ram, not because of Vista directly but due to some other reasons well get into soon, nuff said on that.

<Rant='off'/>
I hope to have some more news tomorrow about the 3.2 release.

Phil

 

WELL SAID!
A well written and informative article which mirrors my thoughts on a number of points and shows understanding of the current situation.

However (love that word) On the matter of NI, I personally do feel a sense of abandonment for the following reason:

>> MacTel is OVER 12 months old (for the dev community it is encroaching on 24 months now).
>> no other popular tt /virtual DJ product DOES NOT have a UB version.
>> Are the current delays application based or partner based (i.e. beatport which i would assume less than 10%** of the traktor community use) ?
AND
>> To the best of my knowledge I have never heard from ANY of the developer in this forum. This is unique to this product. I believe the other major tt products have direct input in their forums from developers. the nearest thing we have is yourself .

the last point is something I would personally like but is probably not that important to most.

The focus of NI does not (to me) seem to be around this product. In the mean time other NI products go from strength to strength.

On a personal note I *prefer* to play Traktor on my macbook and CANNOT play on my macbook in bootcamp mode (without alterations) as my music is on my IPOD, my IPOD is MAC formatted (i.e HFS+) and windows does not read HFS+ HD. I can (and have) install an HFS+ reading application (MacDrive6) but Traktor then hangs when i connect my IPOD.

What I could do is reformat my IPOD to a windows IPOD (FAT) and repopulate it. But why? Its just not an easy / comfortable solution. I ideally want to bootup, connect my IPOD and DJ as that's what I really what to do.... DJ.

I fortunately (like yourself) have the resouces to work around this (i.e. have mutiple machines / installments of traktor on PC and OSX) many haven't.

I also have other doubts concerning Traktor (see http://www.native-instruments.com/forum_us/showthread.php?p=254484 ).

I like to be open minded so I'm going to buy Torq*** (at its price you can't help but try it) Worst case scenario I will be wasting a couple of hundred dollars. The best case I'll have a product that works on my chosen platform.

Disclaimer
* ????

** percentage based on no facts whatsoever. No research was done to achieve this figure. Figures created off the top of my head based on a number of factors which included the light in the room and locations of keys in relation to this light source.

***I LOVE TRAKTOR!!! but gotta have something that JUST WORKS(TM) on my macbook..

 

That it has been pushed back to November?

http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=intelmac_us

 

Phil,

you know very little about me and your last post proves it. I have sold 5 or 6 finalscratch units to several clubs in the Atlanta area. I a getting **** from club owners now about dj's having problems hooling into the system. I have preached and prayed FS from the beginig when i used it in linux. Also I went to scholl for y MCSE. So i have no problems at all with using windows at work, however its all the small glitches that after using Fs for about 5 years now that I have never been able to make go away untill I started using a mac. My first was a G4 and now a macbook. I love Traktor and am waiting for the UB release. when It is released I will once again throw another chunk of change out the window at NI in hopes that it work, and if it does Torq will be an old toy back on the shelf. I just dont want the embareassment of audio drop outs with 500 people infront of me, because when that happens I'm the jack ass not NI

 

For what it's worth, here's my twopennorth on this issue. First of all, I've been DJing semi-professionally for a little over a year now, not long, I know, but everybody has to start somewhere. Up til now, I've been using CDJs but I really want to make the step up to fully digital for various portability, functionality, ease of use type issues.

I'm buying brand new, shiney (Probably not for long but hey ho . . .) MacBook next week and I want some DJ Software so I can start using it.

And, I'm afraid, because I'm lashing out over a grand of my own money, I'm all keyed up and excited and I want it all NOW, not next month but right now. I want to be able to load the software onto my new MacBook as soon as I get it home and play. I think that's a feeling a lot of people on here can proably relate to.

On top of that, it's not just that I have to wait for Traktor, it's that this is probably my busiest time of the year - Hallowe'en, Bonfire Night, Christmas Parties, New Year - all add up to a lot of events which add up to a lot of work. And, I'm figuring it's probably going to take at least a month to familiarise myself enough with whichever software package I buy in order for me to be sufficiently confident to start using it live.

So, if I buy Torq next week, it'll probably still be mid-November before I'm ready to rock'n'roll. If Traktor doesn't come out until mid-November - it'll be mid-December. If it comes out any later than that, then it might as well be next year for all the good it'll be to me.

Let me be clear about one thing - I'd quite like to buy Traktor, I've played around with it on a friend's machine, I think it's great. If someone can give me some REALLY good reasons why I should wait, then I might still wait. But, for the reasons I've outlined above, I could really be doing with something now, not sometime towards the end of this year.

 

That maybe, but your repeated ill-informed rants on recent matters show a lack of comprehension of the process, the product and of the technology in general.

I'm not gonna get into a pi$$ing match over this, I have much more mundane tasks demanding attention that have some chance of positive success. Can ya see where this is going?

Phil

 

That's all well and good Phil, but are you now able to tell us what you were going to announce? Or were you going to announce the November release date?

 

Yeah 'my bad' as they say here.... I missed a message in the morass that is my mailbox at present.

The Traktor 3.2 release including the Mactel U.B. code has been delayed till late in November. In part this is to co-ordinate the release with the re-launch the Beatport inline store. During this time we will be continuing development efforts for Traktor 3.2 for both Windows and Mac Universal Binaries focusing on defect fixes and performance improvements.

Beta testing for this very important release is expected to commence next week. It will proceed as previously discussed. Testers in the MacTel test pool will receive Email later this week.

Phil

 

so after MUCH research I decided to purchase Traktor and the NI Audio Kontrol mid last month. I own a Macbook Pro. I was going to wait until the UB release came out until I saw the NIversary special NI was running on Traktor. So I picked it up for only $99 and spent the full $230 on the audio Kontrol.
I chose Traktor because it had the proven track record, experienced user base, and supposed awesome support. Torq was certainly intriguing, but I get nervous signing onto stuff when it's first gen. However, if I knew I'd be spending over $300 to have this stuff sit on the shelf for over two months... I WOULD NOT have done this!

And I must say, Phil, if you are the public face of NI on these forums... you are not coming off too well. Frankly, you come off as an unapologetic prick. NI is in the wrong right now. Berate your customers all you want, but their complaints are founded.

I can not say anything about feeling Abandoned by NI as I'm a new user, but I can say, without a doubt, that I feel tricked and misled. I currently find myself a victim of clever marketing and unfulfilled promises. False advertising.

The special NIversary pricing of Traktor at $99 was obviously meant to entice new customers to jump in and check out the world of Traktor at a discounted price. Combine that with the special UB grace period and NI is OBVIOUSLY going after new mactel users! So it works, you suck me in, telling me, "don't worry, you'll have this great, highly respected piece of software to have all this fun with in Oct." No matter what spin you put on this, it's not true.

I want someone to inform me how to return and be refunded for my Traktor 3 and my Audio Kontrol. I'll be moving onto Torq.

thank you,
matt_od

 

One VERY IMPORTANT POINT. Phil is like u and me. Not an employee of NI.
I'll Let Phil answer the rest.

Understand your pain however...

 

Hi all
Just like to put a different spin on this...

.....I've also been "hanging out" for months waiting for traktor to be compatible with my macbook pro.... the idea of bootcamp/getting windows hasn't appealed to me (actually, I've just not been in a rush....traktor will be UB eventually!)

...so in the meantime i've gone and got ableton live....I wouldn't have done this if traktor was compatible....and as a result have had a really steep learning curve into the world of electronic music production etc.....

... when traktor becomes compatible - i'll pay for the upgrade and use it (ableton's great - but for purely dj'ing it can do your head in a bit)...

.....i'll also be able to approach traktor again refreshed and more rounded - hopefully with a whole new perspective on putting sets together and the use of effects etc.

So maybe this whole delay thing has been a blessing in disguise for others as well!

 

Hi Matt

I've spent quite a while lurking on this forum just researching into when the time would be right to actually purchase Traktor 3 for my MacBook Pro and FinalScratch 2 setup.

At the end of the day, the $99 scheme was a very tempting offer, but you could have just clicked through to this forum and you would have seen all of the problems that people are having.

In the end I waited until the "Grace Period" for the UB updates began. I was lucky in that the shop I ended up purchasing the software from still had some copies left at the cheaper price point.

That said, you've still got quite a good deal: when the update is release you'll be able to get the upgrade for $29 dollars. So thats $128 dollars for your UB version of Traktor. The price that Traktor is for sale at now (with the free UB upgrade) is $229. You've saved $100. That isn't to be sniffed at.

My point is that NI is not totally to blame; the information is out there! Hell, theres even a note in the System Requirements on the Traktor product page noting "Support for Intel-based Macs coming soon."

Now, as for your rant about Phil. Like I said, I have been lurking on this forum for a while and for the most part Phil is courteous and helpful and even critical of NI for the delay in releasing the updates to all their software.

The only time Phil seems to "berate" people as you put it is when they attack him personally, as if he is the root of all the problems. As xover has mentioned above, Phil is (to my knowledge, anyway) not a NI employee.

That's just my opinion. To be honest, I'm also more than a little annoyed at the time that it has taken NI to get around to releasing the UB update, but at the end of the day you can still boot into Windows and use Traktor. Yes I know, it isn't what you bought a Mac for but hey, it works, and when the time comes you can just switch over.

Traktor is complicated software, as is pretty much all of the software that NI sell. It takes time to get these things right, and at least NI haven't rushed out some buggy piece of crap; they're taking their time, testing it and getting it right.

Just be patient

 

My old PowerBook sadly died getting soaked in a wave of beer, which is why I had to get a replacement, a MacBook Pro, earlier than I wanted. For the time being, until there is a UB of Traktor, a close friend of mine was so kind and willing to lend me his PowerBook, which'll come to an end the following days (after almost 3 months, it's really about time he get's it back), leaving me with a heap of money recently invested in tunes I can't DJ on my MBP, not to mention DJ'ing at all.
I have a certain understanding in complexities and problems at this time of software development concerning T. but pushing beta testing weeks ahead due to new features having to be implemented when all MacTel users need for *now* is an as is last version running on Intel is one thing, having to integrate Beatport, which could be just fine being a supplementary stand aside application if anyone actually uses it, and adding up to the list to be done and adding up the delay is a point I don't accept at all.

For now, I feel annoyed by reading some of the less well thought and pish moody posts and sure the moderators are too, at least. But … if you don't stand up for something … you know that score, don't you?
So please, if you write up something, make it at least worth reading.