Traktor Effects Send with Xone:2D

Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum, so ahoi to you all! I dig this forum...


OK right, I'm posting in General Discussion since my issue relates to both Traktor (pro) and the Xone:2D soundcard - mainly concerning latency.

I started to use Traktor's effects Send function rather than the default effects Insert - I need to keep the effected signal separate for various of my mix setups.

I use the Auxilary Sends on my Xone:92 to send the signal to a free Input on my Xone:2D, which I route to Traktor's Input Send. Traktors Output Send I route to a free Output on my 2D, which is cabled to my 92's Return Bus.

All works fine, except one nasty side effect:
The wet signal is a couple of milliseconds delayed, effectively adding this nasty echo/reverb quality to everything I play using effects, kinda sounds like when two decks drift out of sink.

1)
Is this ordinary behaviour? Since the signal does have to travel out my mixer, back through Traktor, and back into my mixer.

2)
Or is this a 2D soundcard issue? I heard the 2D can produce some unwanted latency, but this is the first time it's affecting my setup.

3)
Does the Audio8 make the same thing in such a configuration? (Meaning the delay is normal due to the extended signal path)


Has anybody had similar problems?

 

I think the problem is that the deck is being played on the respective line fader, as well as the return loop. You need to make sure the when the effect loop is activated the channel is muted.

My Rane 56 automatically mutes the channel when you engage the fx loop but I don't think the Xone 92 does the same.

 

Indeed so.
But for what I'm doing I need the sound from both - basically need to add an effect to the signal, then playing back the wet and dry signal on different channels simultaneously.

I did speak to Allen & Heath about it this morning. They understand the scenario - told me its got to do with the AD/DA conversions in the soundcard taking up extra time on the effected signal. They suggest I first try and set a higher sample rate and a lower buffer size.

Also asked them if the Audio8 would do better. Told me not really, and that the soundcards are virtually the same - the reason why the 2D is not TSP certified has got more to do with licensing - and the fact that NI put an extra piece of coding in the beginning of the firmware. The fact that the 2D is not certified actually has nothing to do with the soundcard architecture.
What I'm getting at is that the Audio8 isn't faster and hence wont solve my problem in terms of hardware speed.

I'll go and tweak some settings tonight and see what happens. Let's hope for the best.

 

IMO its not practically possible to avoid this effect, even if you got the uberinterface that is able to run at 0,5ms latency you will have the unwanted effect to sound more like a flanger/phaser than a delay but it´s still present.

the only thing i can imagine is a small delay before the linefader but not the send out to compensate the delay of the additional ad/da process, but i have no idea how this could technically be achieved.

 

Hey guys, any update on this? were you able to fix that latency/echo when adding an effect?

I have exactly the same problem with my xone 2d and my ecler nuo 4 and I've been trying changing the buffer size and the sample rate but still the same problem...

thanks

 

Well, to completely get rid of the problem isn't possible - like Procrastinator also noted. I managed to get my latency down to 0.5ms, but then Traktor starts to make all kinds of pops and crackles after about ten minutes. But even so, it didn't entirely get rid of the problem.


The reason for the delay/flange effect is as follows:

Traktor's digital output gets converted to analogue via the 2D and on to the input of the mixer, this is all still fine. However, when you use Traktor's Effect Send option, the signal follows the same route as above, but then it exits your mixer via the FX Send bus back through the 2D to get converted back to digital and into Traktor for FX Processing. The Effected signal then again has to be converted back to analogue by the 2D before it goes back into the mixer via the FX Return bus.

So, as you can see, not only does the signal path extend by about 3 times in distance (it takes longer for anything to travel further) but it also has to be converted twice extra (AD/DA) which takes a lot more time. This is the main reason for the delay in the effected signal. If you were to use only the wet signal you wont notice anything, it would be like sending the output of the mixer straight to a FX Box and on to a sound system. It's only when you split the signal into wet and dry, like I did, that you would find a major delay in the wet signal, due to the reason I explained above.

I managed to get my latency down to 0.5ms, but only after installing a clean copy of Windows7 on a clean partition, and installing nothing else but Traktor, but even then there's still a delay/flanger-like effect.

You must also keep in mind that some effects simply aren't suitable for this kind of FX routing. I get a similar delay when I use the EFX-1000 unit with my Xone:92 FX bus.

To conclude, the delay/flange effect you experience is unavoidable.

However, there is another possibility which I haven't yet investigated, but for that you'll need a digital mixer. You can then use the digital In/Out on the 2D as well as that on the digital mixer, and it should eliminate an extra AD/DA conversion, which should reduce the delay to a minimum, but it would never disappear.

Hope all that made sense. Let me know how you get on.