Traktor S4 MK1 stutter (possible USB3.0 issue?)

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR PRO / TRAKTOR SCRATCH PRO' started by StutterLagGuy, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. StutterLagGuy

    StutterLagGuy New Member

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    Hello all! This is my first time posting here. I'm hoping somebody out there has some sort of experience with my issue and could lend some insight. I'm quite proud of my Google-fu, but after 40-50 hours of research I've just about hit my wit's end on this problem.

    tl;dr (too long; didn't read): Moved to a new laptop; Traktor now has horrible latency spikes when talking with my S4 (anywhere between 2ms and 15ms latency). This only occurs when the S4 is connected to the laptop, however. The machine can handle any other task I throw at it, no matter how intensive, without breaking a sweat. I have a feeling, but cannot confirm yet, that it is due to USB 3.0 driver issues - but I don't have any 2.0 ports on my laptop, so I may be stuck.

    I'm hoping that if I can solve this, I might be able to help assist others with similar issues. Onto the important information:

    Laptop specs:
    • Asus Rog Strix GL702VSK
    • 12GB DDR4 RAM
    • Intel i7 7700HQ (2.80GHz)
    • GeForce GTX1070
    • Win10 x64 bit
    • Traktor 2.11.3 17 (currently running at an average of 500us latency, not counting spikes)

    I have seen many, many topics in the 2012-2017 timeframe on this issue, and have tried most everything that I have come across in an attempt to get this under control. I'll link to various threads related to solution info where possible.

    What I have tried:
    • Ran LatencyMon (showing 2000-15000µs DPC latency spikes from wdf01000.sys, but that's just a container driver, not the real culprit)
    • Downloaded Windows XPerf (Performace Analyzer) tracing tool (still finding my way around the results of my trace, though it also shows wdf01000.sys as the offender)
    • Updated BIOS to the latest version
    • Disabled UEFI network controller in BIOS
    • Added/deleted/played with HPET (High Precision Event Timers) using bcdedit commands.
    • Disabled unnecessary devices, including:
      Bluetooth card
      Wifi card
      Unused USB devices (webcam, etc.)
      Onboard sound cards
    • Added "MSISupported" Key to audio card registry
    • Set priority to background processes
    • Disabled disk compression and file indexing
    • Enabled all high performance power settings
    • Disabled USB sleep/suspend options in device manager
    • Disabled battery power saver
    • Disabled Microsoft ACPI Compliant Control Method Battery (not sure if this got fully disabled, but it brought the average down briefly. Did not solve spikes)
    • Re-installed latest Traktor S4 drivers
    • Disabled GTX1070 graphics card from device manager
    • Buying a powered USB 2.0 hub (to trick the system in to using a supported isochronous data stream)
    • ...and more that I have probably forgotten about (but will add if someone happens to jog my memory)

    What I have yet to attempt:

    As I mentioned before, the fact that this only occurs when the S4 is plugged in leads me to believe that it's a USB driver issue, but I could be entirely wrong. If anyone has any ideas, please toss them around and I'll give it a shot.

    Update 7/28/2018: Disabling C States in the registry brought the average from 500-900us down to 80-110us, but I have yet to determine whether this solves the spikes. See this thread for details. Basically, just change the registry value in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Intelppm labeled "Start" from a value of 3 to a value of 4. I've logged a couple of very high spikes in the mean time, but haven't actually been in the room to see whether or not they affect audio quality. I'm going to try and play with a program called ThrottleStop 8.60 to see if I can further tune my processors.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  2. Gontie.

    Gontie. NI Product Owner

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    81
    How frequent are these audio stutters ?

    I don't get it about the latencymon, are you above the 2000µs ?
     
  3. StutterLagGuy

    StutterLagGuy New Member

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    The timing is random; it can once every minute or two, up to a couple times a second. If I'm really lucky I can go 8 minutes or so without hearing anything abnormal.

    Traktor's internal latency meter usually shows a steady number between 500 and 900µs (not ideal, but manageable), but whenever a stutter appears, LatencyMon is logging a 2000µs up to 15000µs DPC (deferred procedure call) event.
     
  4. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

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    1,948
    I know you said you have been hours into finding a solution, but this link points to a direct problem with that laptop for audio latency.
    I did a search for your model number and latency problems, many posts came up.
    The link below is for a 1080 version, but it leads me to believe that an issue is present for that laptop, especially if it is coming up not only in DJ or Production audio.
    https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?86421-GTX-1080-STRIX-causing-ASIO-latency-issues

    This one mentioned a fix.
    Forgive me if you have already been through the forums and such for your model but I didn't see it mentioned in your post about any direct issues with your specific model.

    You have said it only happens with the S4 though, which I totally understand, I still have had issues with the S8 when plugging into a usb3 slot. Lucky for me I bought a laptop that has 2.0 on one side.

    I don't think the usb2.0 hub will trick the drivers, I remember something about that not working. Also I believe you can uninstall the 3.0 drivers by reverting to Windows 7, but that was back before 10, not really an option now.

    Sorry if all this is old news for you. It sounds like you have done your research and been through it all.
     
  5. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

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    1,948
  6. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

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    I've also read, but haven't purposely tested the usb3 port that charges is better for using with 2.0 devices. As well the laptop should be plugged in and disable the sleep function for all ports (which by the way seem to revert back to sleep enabled, so I check this and all power management when I have issues), I always have my laptop plugged in and a powered usb hub for my external hard drive. To avoid power issues or any settings trying to take over my ports.
     
  7. StutterLagGuy

    StutterLagGuy New Member

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    Hmm, I haven't seen those threads on the 1080 version; thanks for the links! I'll take a look once I get home from work. So far the S4 is the only thing that has issues. Traktor Pro 2 on it's own (without the S4 plugged in) and my FL Studio projects (no matter how complex) haven't shown any signs of audio issues at all.
     
  8. StutterLagGuy

    StutterLagGuy New Member

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    Reading through the first link now; it's 94 pages though :p

    I attempted the ideas in the second link, but my BIOS seems to be dumbed down, and I don't have access to USB, CPU C-States, etc. from there. I'm going to have to ask Asus forums if there is a way to make those visible...
     
  9. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

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    1,948
    I've seen a few different claims of how to revert Usb 3 to 2
    Most of the search turned up posts and forum content from 2013-15 and Windows 7 or 8.
    I glanced at a couple recent ones but they didn't look too promising.

    The bios method also had another setting for something about "legacy"?
    If you can find a way to switch to 2.0 it seems like it should work, since you have done every other optimization.


    Oh also I think I remember that the S4 had a hardware update specific for usb3.0
    Have you checked the updates on the NI site for firmware and such?
     
  10. StutterLagGuy

    StutterLagGuy New Member

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    I'm 90% sure I have the latest firmware version, but I'm having a hard time finding info on what the latest revision is...I'm going to send a ticket to NI to see what the latest firmware version should be. In the mean time, I reinstalled the S4 drivers for windows and disabled my GTX1070 entirely, to no avail.
     
  11. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

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    1,948
    This link
    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/downloads/drivers-other-files/

    Scroll down to Traktor S4 the only Windows download, if you read the info, it is specifically for USB 3.0 support.


    "The package installs the Windows driver (version 3.1.0) for TRAKTOR KONTROL S4 for Windows 7 and Windows 8.
    • Important Note: USB 3.0 support depends on the respective USB 3.0 chipset and chipset driver. Check the Native Instruments Download website for firmware updates and contact your computer- or chipset vendor in case of remaining problems.
    • Improved performance when TRAKTOR KONTROL S4 is connected to USB 3.0 ports on Windows 7 and Windows 8
    • WHQL-certified"
     
  12. StutterLagGuy

    StutterLagGuy New Member

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    Yep...that's what I installed. (I already had it, but re-installed it anyways.) Still no improvement, sadly. Edit: When I mentioned firmware, I was talking about re-flashing the actual S4 software, not the Windows drivers. It says the S4 is on version 15, but I don't know if there is anything past that.
     
  13. ErikMinekus

    ErikMinekus NI Product Owner

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  14. StutterLagGuy

    StutterLagGuy New Member

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    Yeah, I noticed...I figured that was probably the case, but seeing as my firmware version is "15", obviously there must have been a 14, etc. It changed at some point in time (perhaps iterations 1-14 were all done during testing before the product was released), I just wanted to be sure there wasn't a 16 or a 17, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  15. StutterLagGuy

    StutterLagGuy New Member

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    9
    Update: powered USB 2.0 hub made no difference. I have a thread on the Asus forums now, so we'll see if I get a response. I also attempted uninstalling my USB 3.0 internal hubs entirely, but it simply disabled everything (including the keyboard) instead of reverting to USB 2.0 drivers. There is probably more I can test related to this...

    I'm also attempting to figure out if I can decode what child driver is causing the parent wdf01000.sys driver to spike as that might better lead me to the culprit.
     
  16. StutterLagGuy

    StutterLagGuy New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Disabling C States in the registry brought the average from 500-900us down to 80-110us. This was impossible from BIOS, but luckily is editable through the Windows registry for Intel processors. See this thread for details. Basically, just change the registry value in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Intelppm labeled "Start" from a value of 3 to a value of 4. You lose battery life but gain performance. I've logged a couple of very high spikes in the mean time, but haven't actually been in the room to see whether or not they affect audio quality. I'm going to try and play with a program called ThrottleStop 8.60 to see if I can further tune my processors.
     
  17. zephry

    zephry NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,948
    Maybe try this...
    Although for games you can personalize it to keep the services like NI or other audio you need running.
    Worth checking out, I used to use an older version that even allowed to disable and enable Explorer.

    https://www.razer.com/cortex
     
  18. FunkyBrewster

    FunkyBrewster NI Product Owner

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    103
    It sounds like you have a machine-specific issue, but if you haven't done a clean install of Windows since you got the machine, it may be worth a try.
    If you do, use Fresh start from Windows Defender Security Center, not "Reset this PC." Doing that, and then making a new DJ user account (Fresh start always keeps your personal files), got my S4 MK1 working again after an upgrade to Traktor 2.11.3 went badly on top of minor system glitches from the last big Windows update.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. sangdogg

    sangdogg NI Product Owner

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    have you tried to increase s4 audio latency and disable multicore support?
    and i thought setting power option to performance mode is intelppm 4 already but good to know.
    i have another very silly question. are you using the genuine power supply? is the dc in volt / amp meter correct?
     
  20. Ocizzzle

    Ocizzzle New Member

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    Hey please keep this post going I've been trying to figure this problem for years I have a Asus laptop with a Nvidia GTX 950 graphics card. ever since I got this laptop my S4 is had nothing but the same type of audio Spike I've spent years trying to figure it out and the most I've been able to do is get it down to very very very small click but it still happens. from the information that I found over the years that has to do with a problem with the GTX audio processor supposedly they havent catered to the audio sector of their processor card and it's not fully compatible with traktors program....
    I am no huge techie guy I just really like my music and I've had this problem for a long time and I've tried just about everything you have the only thing I've been able to find that make sense is that there's a problem with the audio and it being compatible with the graphics card in the Asus laptop