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Traktor Scratch and old FS2 amp (yeah again...)

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR SCRATCH' started by nik39, Apr 2, 2007.

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  1. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

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    5,321
    Here is the simplified explanation of this.

    Not official from NI but moreso just a quick discussion.

    The SA2 will work in Traktor 3.2.1 and higher as a regular ASIO based soundcard which has already been stated numerous times.

    At this current time DVS through the SA2 in these versions are not supported because the application is coded that way.

    Therefore the new Traktor/Traktor Scratch releases would need to be coded to enable certified products to support NI's timecode engine.

    That is my assumption based on the current design of the Traktor platform.
     
  2. titanium

    titanium NI Product Owner

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    36
    I accidently made a new thread on this and i apologize to the moderators. I should know better than that.

    Anyway, I can understand if NI won't support the FS2 scratchamp. This doesn't mean we should have to upgrade to the new Audio 8 DJ. If we do have problems than I will buy the new A8. Shouldn't that be decided by us; the consumer? NI is great and I love Traktor. I would just like to keep my scratchamp and still be able to get software upgades.....and I definitely wouldn't mind buying NI timecoded vinyls. Maybe there's so much conflict between the two companies tht NI just doesn't want to say the two will work together because of legal reasons (and support).
    By the way, has anyone even tried to use the FS2 scratchamp, NI timecode vinyl and Traktor Scratch? I've used "other" software and timecoded vinyl with the FS2 scratchamp before and it worked fine. To sum what Nik39 said, its just an audio interface. Timecode is what the software reads. Right?
     
  3. nem0nic

    nem0nic Forum Member

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    870
    Here's an experiment. Try using FS2's vinyl control capability with another interface (like your built in soundcard - just to illustrate a point). Does it work? How about in 3.2? Will 3.2 give you the option of vinyl control when the Scratchamp isn't connected?

    NO ONE HAS EVER said that the Scratchamp won't work with NI products at all. It's an ASIO soundcard. But if you want to use the vinyl control capabilities of the software, you'll need a compliant interface. NI determines what interfaces are compliant. Right now, the Scratchamp isn't one of them.
     
  4. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

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    83
    djquartz what your failing to see is that the product we all paid for is not what it was when we purchased it. We were supposed to have an upgrade path to Traktor 3 and software support from NI. Regardless of when and how this stopped the bottom line is the end user is suffering. My main point is that I am now unable to even purchase a build of Traktor 3 that will work with the hardware I paid for that is "powered" by the same companies software. I have only asked a question that was completely regarding the SOFTWARE side of the product I purchased. My threads have been locked to many times to count and moved for one reason or another. Obviously I am not the only user feeling this way, and I appreciate those who have spoken up who are in the same boat. I just find it extremely interesting what lead me to even read into all of this was the advertisement of the amazing A8. To be honest I am impressed with the hardware and to be quite frank I would dish out the cash right now if it were not for the sour taste NI has left in my mouth.
     
  5. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

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    5,321
    @ rapedfsuser

    I've already posted what you need to do so you can get further assistance.

    That thread was re-opened this afternoon and moved to the appropriate section which is the Traktor 3 section.

    If you choose to ignore that request there is nothing I can do for you in terms of the T3 issue.
     
  6. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

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    Very well said, and what is even worse is almost every response involves another shameless plug for the replacement product.
     
  7. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

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    116
    Imagine if every TRAKTOR Finalscratch owner were aware of what has transpired and if every TRAKTOR Finalscratch owner frequented this forum....
    I think NI is really counting on the fact that most FS users are oblivious as of yet.
    The real knife in the back for me was discovering that NI is going to support 'other hardware' for use with Traktor Crapth,
    But not our NI branded TRAKTOR Finalscratch's scratchamp.
    I've recently had several people inqure about advice on a DVS to purchase(and after telling them that even though you can still buy it NEW!,that it has been discontinued),I have mentioned the other brands and also (reluctantly) mentioned that they might look at Traktor Scratch but also shared my honest opinion on the company and the way they treat their customers and the way they fail to properly support their own products!
    So,I'm at least doing my part to repay them for the kindness they've shown me!
     
  8. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

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    116
    And for another thing...
    For everyone who says we should be equally pissed at Stanton,why!?
    Stanton doesn't owe me anything.Stanton provided the hardware part of the package,the hardware works AS IT SHOULD depending on the consistancy of the software and has no impending hardware updates needed or implied to provide continued use.
    Stanton isn't the one (this time) trying to sell me a similar product as a lame excuse for coninued product support!
    My hardware warranty is expired,however Stanton will if needed,service the unit.
    My software warranty?Well at least make it work properly for once!~
    The ball is in NI's court!The product is useless as stated without the software as provided by and supported by NI.It is NI who owes us continued support,if nothing else at all,to ensure that there are no further bugs in their software that we purchased as part of the Finalscratch package,and as part of the TJS upgrade for TRAKTOR Finalscratch users.
    I can't say I am exactly tickled pink by Stanton either,especially after the FS 1.xx (powerd by NI) to TFS 2.xx Forced upgrade.Both companies seriously blundered on that move and now NI is blundering again.
    And as far as the 'legal' issue.Stanton clearly stated that ANYONE could develop using the Stanton code.So it is clearly NI,to use this metaphor,who are the divorced parent whom damn well should be supporting the estranged child!
     
  9. LNE

    LNE Forum Member

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    59
    Quote Jackson Sisters: "I believe in miracles"...

    The "certified hardware" campaign is a step in the right direction. I am surprised and happy NI opens Traktor Scratch for third party audio devices. There has been a lot of discussions of the pros and cons to do so. It's nice to see that NI seems to believe in the pros outweighing the cons.

    I am also naive enough to believe, NI does - to some extend - listen to users making their point on this board. Lots of users here spend aweful lot time with the DVS and provide very usefull information for NI. So I do believe, people who make a good point here sharing experiences and arguments will be heard by NI at last.

    Personally, I am still sure supporting the SA2 would be awesome for all the registered FS2 clients. NI has gathered profond knowledge of the SA2 issues and it should be easier to certify this known hardware device. On the other hand I see good points to abandon all Stanton devices for good.

    We will see, how NI will react on the numbers of upgrades sold. Maybe they will see the market of DVS users with third party hardware like the SA2, the RME RPM, EMU 1616 etc.

    Peace
     
  10. AudioRapture

    AudioRapture NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,892
    Very simple: FS2 is and was Stanton's product. "NI Traktor Powered"? You do know what that means in the world of software bundles? Can you guess? The original manufacturer leaves *all* support to the one bundling the product. It's like purchasing a Windows laptop from dell/hp/whoever - you won't get any support from Microsoft (unless you pay for it), you have to talk to dell/hp/whoever.

    Stanton left its users in the cold, so NI showed good-will and stepped in - a pile of poo.

    Software warranty? Does such a beast even *exist*?

    Don't get me wrong - allowing the SA2 to work with Scratch would probably be the right thing to do for the users. Unfortunately, similar to LNE's comment, I can see why NI doesn't want to deal with anything Stanton anymore, period.
     
  11. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

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    116
    That's a total BS cop-out.TRAKTOR Finalscratch wasn't sold to me as a hardware interface with an optional powered by NI software package,and the Traktor DJ Studio upgrade for FS users wasn't sold to me as an app that may or may not work with the scratchamp.
    NI was involved from day one,their logo is all over the retail box and the package would have had absolutely no retail value to me without the software portion and branding of the package.
    Sure you can buy a preloaded xp or vista branded computer,but in many cases you would prefer to just supply your own already existing copy of an OS.
    Not that it's the same story at all,but microsoft doesn't all of a sudden tell you that for continued support of their products you have to buy a whole new computer sold exclusively by them!Can you imagine the stink that would raise!!!?
    Vista still runs on my 3 year old desktop!
    Sure,lots of hardware manufacturers bundle additional software as a 'sweetener' to the deal but I have a really really hard time seeing the NI portion of the FS package as a just a 'sweetener' that I was lucky to get when I purchased TFS!
     
  12. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,321
    Go look up the history of Final Scratch.

    NI was NOT involved from day one. They only got involved because Stanton desperately needed a saving grace after 6mo - 1yr FS 1.0 was on the market and was a disaster!

    So FS is not a NI product. The only product they have ownership of was the customized version of Traktor DJ Player/Studio that had the FS timecode engine slammed into it called Traktor Final Scratch. Meaning they own the Traktor codebase portion only.

    Otherwise the FS engine, etc is STILL owned by Stanton and that's obviously true because they were able to force NI's hand legally on the support matter.
     
  13. AudioRapture

    AudioRapture NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,892
    No not optional. Bundled. There is nothing optional about it.

    And for *that*, and *only* that you *might* be able to fault them.
    Nevertheless, don't forget about Stanton's legal shenanigans and subsequent somersault.

    Uhm... you haven't paid much attention to the Windows history, have you? Discontinued architectures include Microchannel, VL-Bus, serial mice, ISA, ....

    Yes, you can still run Win3.1 on your 486 with VL-Bus graphics card, but don't ask anyone for support.

    Similarly, you can still run 3.2.0 with your SA2.

    When it comes down to it, that's *exactly* what it is. A piece of software to make the hardware more valuable. Stanton decided to contract NI for that. In that sense, you were *very* lucky. Otherwise it might still not work at all.
     
  14. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    116
    Well,you guys can just keep on telling yourselves whatever little BS loophole variables you need in order to justify your point of views on the matter and to patronize NI,but it ulimately won't change how I and many others perceive the situation...
    If you look at it in black and white from the average consumer perspective who is just now figuring out what has happened to their investment,we have been mislead and ripped off.There are no other variables except that someone needs to take responsibility for those of us who have been left out in the cold.End of story!

    BTW,I've been with FS since day one(well except for the BeOS VIP days)
    NI was with the FS2.xx hardware+software+marketing package since DAY ONE!
    When NI stepped in during FS1.xx,FS was still crap!(even though it was defended by the patriots as adamantly as it is now)They then formed an entirely new yet similar product (FS2.xx)in conjuction with Stanton and the product,in particular the software end, is still crap!
    Forgive my lack of knowledge regarding archaic computing systems.
    In my seven years as an intensive computer user I have never once until FS owned a piece of hardware that has been antiquted by an OS,and technicly NI Traktor Final Scratch is the dedicated OS for the Stanon Scratchamp!
     
  15. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,321
    As a normal consumer of FS2, I stated on this forum back in the 2005 what was going to happen with it back then.

    When Stanton made the bold statement that they were taking over FS2 support again.

    So if you're just now seeing what happened with FS then you weren't obviously paying attention.

    If Stanton was so concerned about their product they would have made sure to have a solution in place. They didn't and left FS to the wild.

    Sure it was joint effort but I didn't see Stanton coming knocking on my door as a general consumer back in 2005, 2006 or even now.

    NI provided a solution and I am grateful for that. I am not endorsed by NI or paid by them to jump through any loopholes.

    I'm calling it exactly how I see it and Stanton ditched their users by not preparing a solution for the customer base if they knew they were going to end their contract with NI.

    NI decided to make their own system to they can cradle to grave the solution without BS and support it properly.

    That's the end of the story. As it stands everyone has a choice, use their existing platform or upgrade.

    All this bickering and endless debate is not going to change that fact.
     
  16. AudioRapture

    AudioRapture NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,892
    Here's a little exercise in logic for y'all:

    a) Who got your money for FS2? - Stanton.

    b) Who took FS2 support away from T3? - Stanton.

    c) And who do you end up complaining to? - NI.

    If that makes sense to you, be my guest. I'm done on this thread.
     
  17. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

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    116
    a) So NI did it all for free?Wow,that's sweet!Based on that fact alone I immediately relieve them of any responsibilty...

    b) Who actually knows why?Sure is convenient how NI just happened to have a nearly identical replacement product ready...that wouldn't have anything to do with the breakup now would it?
    Mind you...Stanton has more recently said giv'r to all developers...

    c)Please come up with some actual facts that make sense to convince me I should be complaining elsewhere!

    As far as I'm concerned your statements are just more inconclusive beating around the bush ...aka bs!
     
  18. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

    Messages:
    83
    It looks like someone went through and did some late night cleaning... what is their to hide here folks? I would like to know why posts have been removed from this and other threads?

    Thank You! The games are becoming more and more apparent and I am becoming more and more aggreviated about this whole situation. The bottom line is I and others will now be dishing out well over $1000US for a DVS solution using Traktor 3. Between the already purchased FS2 system and now the crossgrade to Traktor Scratch with Traktor 3 upgrade. This just is not right when we paid for something that was sopposed to be the same thing not that long ago.
     
  19. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

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    83
    Take a quick look at the comparison chart on NI website...

    http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=tscratchcomp_us

    Do you honestly feel that the difference between FS2 and TS warrent the cost of the $449 crossgrade offer even after you dished out close to that not that long ago?

    I am impressed with the A8 and I was honestly extremely interested in the crossgrade offer until I have read more and did the math. Beyond that NI is only giving a window of 30 days for this offer...
     
  20. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    116
    Ok Phil,you win
    Whenever I have any response along the lines of this particular subject matter that has direct relevence to any comments made in any other forum threads comes to mind I will post it completely out of context over here where my response will most certainly be noticed and responded to in context of the original thread....
    Mind you I may have to repeat some things word for word that were already clearly said in other posts in order to clear up any contextual confusion..

    Confused yet?

    Of course I expect to see all the other users doing the same thing in regard to any sound card inquiries,product inquiries or what have you....

    Actually,why don't we just limit ourselves to 5 topics under each subcatagory.That would really help clean things up around here and make information more intelligible!

     
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