Transpose woes

NI Kontakt Ultimate 5.0.3
MacBook Pro 13" Dual Core, 2.26Ghz, 8Gb RAM
Glyph Firewire (instruments loaded on this)
Apogee Duet 2
Roland Fantom G7, Yamaha S90es

I'm trying to resolve the problem of transposing instruments so I can play Kontakt multiple instruments on one keyboard with no overlap (what I call "zoning" but I take it this is also a term used w/regard to the mapping editor): For example, cellos from C2-C4, horns from C#4-C7.

I've tried both the instrument options' midi transpose (yields either hung notes or no sound at all) and the factory script's performance/transpose (same result). I've tried to do this and restart Kontakt, even restart the computer, no change.

Granted that in Live, I can set up an instrument rack and this makes "zoning" a cinch, but the instruments still need to be in the right register and I don't think that can be done in Live. So for now, I'm limiting my testing to Kontakt.

On another note, with no transposing being effected, I'm experiencing a lot of glitches (dropped notes or inconsistent dynamics) when trying to trigger two sounds (Studio Strings and Session Horns, specifically) from my Roland. I note that if, instead, I control one sound with my Roland and the other with my Yamaha, the glitches go away.

Any suggestions on either of these issues much appreciated.

 

Instrument MIDI transpose has a bug in that note ons get transposed, but note offs don't get transposed. So that unfortunately results in hung notes.

You could try using the CineMap free multiscript to create your own zone mappings with transposition and whatnot.

http://cinesamples.com/2010/09/cinemap-really-useful-freebie-for-k4/

 

Thanks, ED: I will check this out. It's not immediately clear that this app will give me the ability to set up transpositions per instrument or multi in Kontakt or any of my other NI instruments. If it doesn't, is this something you could do?

 

It can do transpose. You do it like this:

1. Click on the "+" button in lower left corner of CineMap to add a new mapping
2. Make sure you have "Ignore existing" enabled
3. Click on the top keyboard in the CineMap GUI, then play the top and bottom key of the keyrange (say, C3 to C4)
4. Click on the bottom keyboard in the CineMap GUI, then play the top and bottom key of the keyrange (say, A3 to A4).

This will create a mapping that's going to transpose the middle octave by -3 semitones.

 

Cool. And I just watched the video on the Cinemap webpage: Looks like a very useful app. I risk assuming it works with Kontakt 5, too. Yes?

 

It will work with K5 as well, you will just have to copy the NKP preset and all the pictures to relevant Kontakt 5 folders. I think it's explained in the manual, it's the same path, except "Kontakt 4" you use "Kontakt 5".

 

Hey, EvilDragon: I thought I had gotten somewhere with Cinemap in that I got the interface to show up when selecting in Multi's script editor and, following the Cinemap's demo video, seemed on my way. But it appears to be inconsistent—I got a single instrument (grand piano) to transpose ok, but when I had two instruments (on different midi channels, of course), I was unable to transpose either one. Is this parr for the course, and if so, have you written midi transpose scripts? If yes, I'll email you for further info.

 

You have to add another mapping in CineMap (press the "+" button) for an instrument that's on a different MIDI channel.

 

Sorry, I was ambiguous: Yes, I know this. My point was I couldn't effect a transposition for either instrument, but...maybe I misunderstand: Do you mean that for EITHER instrument transposition to work, I have to create two mappings, else neither one will work. I would not have thought this to be necessary since each instrument is on a separate midi channel.

And thank you for all your help so far, btw. Very much appreciated.

 

Gotta set the In Ch. and Out Ch. correctly for each mapping. I have no problems with this here. Setting the first mapping in/out to channel 1, the second mapping in/out to channel 2... works!

 

And I was setting in and out for the same channel (e.g., NI strings are on channel 2, so I set the Cinemap mapping In and Out both to channel 2; then I would do the same for NI horns on channel 3 [haven't done this yet, will try tonight]). I assume I could also set up additional mappings if, say, I wanted to control multiple instruments on different midi channels (e.g., channels 3-5) with a single incoming instrument (e.g., channel 3). Do I got it right?

 

Yes, you can do that. It all works over here - one channel can be mapped to multiple channels, simply by adding more mappings.

It's pretty flexible.

 

Right on, ED: I'll give this a try tonight and let you know how it all pans out. Thanks again!

 

Following up a bit late on this, but the best solution of all was to do all my transposing and zoning in Ableton Live (use instrument rack to facilitate easy zoning, using the midi effect "transpose" for glitch-free transposing. I like Live!

 

So this is a known bug? I ran into this with Kontakt 3 running in Forte, and assumed it would have been fixed by now... I just updated my rig to a sweet MacBook Pro with Kontakt 5 running in MainStage 3, and got an annoying surprise to find the same bug. When an instrument is transposed by one or two octaves, and you play octaves on the keyboard... the lower note will stick until you play it again. Why on earth would an obvious bug in such a seemingly basic, essential feature go unfixed for years? Certainly more than one or two players must have been vexed by this? Working around it in the host, or using a script is just a kludge.

 

Well, it's the only way of dealing with the issue for the time being, so...

 

So be it, I guess. Anyway, this link seems to be broken, too. Is there a working pointer to the script to work around the bug?

http://cinesamples.com/2010/09/cinemap-really-useful-freebie-for-k4/

 

You don't need that script at all. The multiscript is quite simple to implement:

Code:

on init
    declare ui_knob $Transpose (-36,36,1)
    set_knob_defval($Transpose,0)
    set_knob_unit($Transpose,$KNOB_UNIT_ST)
    $Transpose := 0
    make_persistent($Transpose)
end on

on midi_in
    if ($MIDI_COMMAND = $MIDI_COMMAND_NOTE_ON or $MIDI_COMMAND = $MIDI_COMMAND_NOTE_OFF)
        ignore_midi
        if (in_range($MIDI_BYTE_1 + $Transpose,0,127))
            set_midi($MIDI_CHANNEL,$MIDI_COMMAND,$MIDI_BYTE_1 + $Transpose,$MIDI_BYTE_2)
        end if
    end if
end on

Just make sure that you NEVER change the Transpose knob while you have any held notes, since that will make those held notes stuck forever.


Also take note that this transposes all MIDI channels by the same amount.

 

Thanks E.D. Maybe you're not as evil as everyone says you are.
But I have a feeling that your example won't cure all my woes.
For example, I want to create a Multi (I think that's the correct NI term) with three Instruments (sax section, trombone section and trumpet section) split across a single 88-note keyboard controller transmitting on Channel 1.
I'd like the sax section instrument on the lower third of the keyboard, transposed up 2 octaves.
Trombone section on the middle third of the keyboard, not transposed.
Trumpet section on the top third of the keyboard, transposed down 2 octaves.
To do this in Mainstage 3, I'm currently loading three instances of Kontakt 5 and configuring the split/transpose settings at the Mainstage "Patch" level. I'd like to be able to call up a single instance of Kontakt with a Multi that comprehends all the sounds as well as the split/transpose settings. Would three separate scripts similar to the one you suggest, running on each of the instruments, accomplish this goal?

I can set this up right now using the Instrument Options, but I need to be VERY careful when I play, because if I play any octaves I'll hit the midi transpose bug and get stuck notes.

 

You should definitely use MIDI channels in your case... The script can be modified further with more transpose knobs - one for each MIDI channel.