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TS cuts off the beginnings of my files!

Discussion in 'Technical Issues' started by djcoryminto, Oct 1, 2008.

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  1. djcoryminto

    djcoryminto Forum Member

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    It seems that TS is truncating the very beginnings of my files (about 5ms or so, in my estimation). Any reason for this?

    I rip a CD in dBpoweramp, using no DSP "trim" function whatsoever, and when I load the songs into TS, the beginning is truncated. So if a song begins with a transient, say a kick drum or anything with a sharp attack, the beginning bite of that first kick gets removed.

    *** I know that the file itself is fine, as when I play the file using any media player or an audio editor, the beginning is 100% there. TS is doing this.

    PS, I have not really used TS yet so this may be something obvious to others. I'm in the ripping stages of the whole process. :D
     
  2. djcoryminto

    djcoryminto Forum Member

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    Further updates...
    This truncation occurs only for FLAC files... a FLAC file's respective wav counterpart will NOT undergo the same truncation. This is a major problem, because now I'll somehow have to add 50-100 milliseconds of otherwise unnecessary and completely wasteful space to thousands of my wav files, each of which I have already meticulously edited out any silence from the files' beginnings before the music begins.

    1. This is ridiculous and CAN'T be happening
    2. How am I supposed to add this buffer-space?
    3. Why does Traktor Scratch NOT do this for MP3s and wav files?

    The latter raises the question of latency issues, but I raised my sound card's latency from 256 samples to 1204 samples, but to no avail. Furthermore, latency wouldn't affect one file type and not the other, according to common sense.

    What gives? :(
     
  3. djcoryminto

    djcoryminto Forum Member

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    Another update... just spent a few hours experimenting.

    Confirmed: my Traktor Scratch completely disregards the first 50 milliseconds of ANY and ALL FLAC files that it plays. The beginning of the file according to TS is 50ms into the file. This happens whether or not there was audible audio during the first 50ms. In my case, because I had previously edited the beginnings of all of my wav files throughout the years so that there is no wasted space on them, I now have to either superfluously ADD 50ms to the beginnings of thousands of wav files before reconverting to flac, or fall victim to this bug.

    Additionally, as I rip more CDs as flac files, those songs which DO NOT have 50 or more milliseconds at the beginning of the tracks fall victim to this truncation. So I have to police any material in my future that I grab off of CDs to determine "silence time."

    Again, TS plays wav files and mp3s without ANY truncation at all here. It is just flac files. And all of the flac files have this problem, each and every time during playback. For those flac files WITH 50ms or more of "dead space" or silence at the beginning, there is no noticeable detriment, as all you're missing is dead space that you didn't want anyway.

    I'm in desperate need of help. Someone who uses FLAC files: in your editor, please remove all dead space from a FLAC file so that the kick (or any transient) starts right away, save it, then play that same file in TS and tell me if the beginning transients get cut off of that kick... :S Thanks for any anticipated help guys.
     
  4. DJ_AS

    DJ_AS NI Product Owner

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    I would report this to Native Instruments Support via the website.
     
  5. djcoryminto

    djcoryminto Forum Member

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    I wrote to N.I. about this but I find it impossible that nobody else has noticed this. I calculated the exact number of milliseconds from the beginnings of ALL flac files that TS does NOT acknowledge or play: 95ms

    This 95ms is consistent each and every time, no matter which flac files you load. Again, if your flac file has silence, or no audio during its first 95ms, then of course you won't notice it at all.

    Anyone?
     
  6. jnicol

    jnicol New Member

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    Same for me. I have seen this mentioned in another thread too. My guess is that most people are not using FLAC and therefor have not noticed this issue? Although it seems hard to believe that NI could claim support for a file format when its implementation within the software has such a glaring problem.
     
  7. djcoryminto

    djcoryminto Forum Member

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    jnicol:
    Can you link me to your other thread about this issue?

    N.I. said that they are working on this for the next update.

    I agree that people simply haven't noticed. Songs would have to have < 100ms of blank audio at their beginnings for this error to be even potentially noticed, and most have way more than that.
     
  8. jnicol

    jnicol New Member

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    Actually I just realised that the other thread I mentioned was started by you!

    http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71915

    But that is certainly good news that NI have acknowledged that there is a problem and are working on a fix. I take it you have been corresponding with NI support? or have they made an official announcement about the issue?

    I'm quite flabergasted that you and I seem to be the only people to have noticed this problem. I assumed there must have been something wrong with my Flac files, or my Traktor configuration! In the end I abandoned Flac and used wav instead.
     
  9. djcoryminto

    djcoryminto Forum Member

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    Basically they said that they were already aware of the problem and that it was to be fixed in the next update. This was in like September or October.

    Knowing that they are going to fix the problem, I still went with FLAC files. Here's what I did and still do: when ripping CDs as FLAC in dBpoweramp, I elect to use the plugin "remove silence," removing silence from both the beginnings and ends of the files (I check the "digital silence only" box - i want the tape hiss from old recordings, etc). Then I follow it with the "add silence" plugin, electing to add precisely 100ms of silence to only the beginnings of the files. The plugins remain there in the queue as I ripped thousands of CDs as FLAC. Now every FLAC file has a controlled amount of 100ms at the beginning (yes it's wasted space but who cares), countering the Traktor problem perfectly.

    When N.I. fixes the bug, I will simply use Wavelab to convert in bulk those thousands of FLACS to wav, then I will use a plugin to remove exactly 100ms of silence from the beginnings, and subsequently reencode as FLAC. Would be nice if Wavelab supported FLAC so I can skip the conversion step. Then as a final step, I reckon I should "write metadata" or whatever its called in T.S. to the files, since they went thru conversion/reencoding.

    This has been tedious but all the work was in identifying the problem and coming up with a solution that didn't encumber me at all, so I am happy now.

    BTW, if you went with wav and want to convert them to FLAC now using the spacing plugins as above, all will be fine and dandy until you open T.S., where you will have to find the "missing files," as the names remain the same but the extensions are now different. And the problem is that you CAN'T relocate a bundle at once if we're talking about file extension changes. You would have to actually do it one-by-one which would be a bitch.
     
  10. tecxx

    tecxx NI Product Owner

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    same thing just happens to me.... beginning of file is missing.

    when i decode the flac in soundforge the beginning is there. so it must be a bug in traktor.

    i use version 1.1.2.004 ..... still no fix ?
     
  11. djcoryminto

    djcoryminto Forum Member

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    I am using 1.3.1.050 and have been using this version throughout this dilemma. I haven't checked for an update in many months.
     
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