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TSP and CDJ cue

Discussion in 'Technical Issues (Archive)' started by Brettnai, Dec 22, 2008.

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  1. Brettnai

    Brettnai Forum Member

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    My TSP and CDJ's don't seem to sync very well. I don't normally use my CDJ's in vinyl mode but obviously you have to when using with TSP.

    I like to be able to cue up the track on the first beat and then tap the cue button a few times before hitting play and dropping in the track but when I do this I get a delay between TSP and the CDJ and the first beat isn't always the first beat... it kinda judders a bit.

    I want to avoid having to touch the top of the CDJ. I much prefer just using the buttons.

    I've tried various modes but the 2 just don't seem to sync.

    Also... is it normal to get a high pitch whistle from either my time code vinyl or control CDJ? I can hear it through the headphones and it bugs the hell out of me and probably isn't too good for the old ear holes either.
     
  2. Alfonse

    Alfonse NI Product Owner

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    I am having the same problem. Have tried all sorts of variations but whatever mode I choose whenever I set the cue point it skips forward in the track giving a delay. I too like to use the search buttons on the CDJ to set the cue point on a track so this is very frustrating.

    Try turning your wireless off to loose the whining sound in your headphones.
     
  3. tdlarsen

    tdlarsen Forum Member

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    Yes same problem here, it´s at very big problem if you are a Scratch Dj, it´s useless.
    I also use the Cue buttons on the CDJ to make som effects, and quick scratch, but i sounds awfull, (not from my bad skills :) i can't use it, when running in timecode..
    Can't understand that more users in here, have noticed it.
    It is only the start when making a Cue somewhere in the track, and wants to stutter the Cue button, and makes a stuttering sound, and a small delay.. Hopefully soon it will be fixed...
     
  4. E31

    E31 NI Product Owner

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  5. Alfonse

    Alfonse NI Product Owner

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    Yep this is my problem too. If I could solve this would be well chuffed. Have everything else working as I want now. Although would be nice to have +- 6% pitch bend option to math the CDJs. Am finding the different scales a bit problematic on long mixes.
     
  6. tdlarsen

    tdlarsen Forum Member

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    Yes that's it E31..

    in your video, when pressing Cue in Traktor, it runs right back to the Cue-piont.. But when pressing Cue on the CDJ, it´s not
    100% accurate where the marker is placed, and it´s not on the Cue-point in Traktor. It goes back, to the Cue-point on the CDJ, and thank god for that, but i think, that there is a small disorting or bended sound, when the CDJ is playing the timecode at the very first start, milliseconds.. But it´s enough to get everything off the cue-point..
    Still hope that, there is a solution.. CDJ are still the way to go for 1000s Djs around the world :)
     
  7. Brettnai

    Brettnai Forum Member

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    I'm glad its not just me having this problem. I can't express how disappointed I am in TSP's performance. NI really need to get this fixed.

    As for the the high pitch whistle I mentioned at the start of the thread its seems to emit from the stylus when using the time code vinyl... is this normal?
     
  8. E31

    E31 NI Product Owner

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    That's normal, it's just the sound of the timecode signal
     
  9. DiscoNova

    DiscoNova NI Product Owner

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    1,207
    Yes, that is normal. The NI control vinyls have quite high output and often you can hear the control signal from the stylus even when the player is not connected to anything... nothing to be worried about, though.
     
  10. Brettnai

    Brettnai Forum Member

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    Cool, thanks guys
     
  11. Recess

    Recess Forum Member

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    Just wanted to check if you were using an HP laptop with TSPro? That high-pitched whine MIGHT well be from the control CD's, but it might also have something to do with the power to the processor (or something).

    I had to download a programme called Rightmark CPU utility and check the 'Run HLT command when OS is idle' option to get rid of it.

    Just a thought...

    John
     
  12. Brettnai

    Brettnai Forum Member

    Messages:
    35
    Hey,
    No, I'm using a Macbook pro. Apparently the whistle is normal, its just the frequency the time code vinyl emits.

    I'm still having problems cueing the CDJs though still don't feel as if my mixes are as tight as they should be.... maybe a latency issue... who knows
     
  13. Recess

    Recess Forum Member

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    23
    For what it's worth, I've found that it's best just to think of it as it's me having a problem rather than equipment issues - the reason being that if I think it's latency/bad turntables or whatever, I'll just blame them and start making excuses to myself about the mistakes, rather than just doing something about it.

    I've not had many problems with the CDJ's - though I find I need to step into 0.2% to really lock 'em in tight.

    John
     
  14. kourampies

    kourampies Forum Member

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    208
    i had this issue with traktor scratch 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, traktor 3.4 and traktor pro, with 1.5 ms latency :(
     
  15. E31

    E31 NI Product Owner

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    49
    Update on CDJ cueing

    I finally got an answer from NI about this issue:
    I understand every timecode solution has it's limits, but I don't understand why first 20ms of the old position have to be played.

    It would be better if Traktor first analyses the current track position before audio output.

    The delay is indeed present on other timecode software like SSL, but it's far less noticable because the old position of the track is never played before the software recognizes the current position of the track.

    Seems logical to me. It would be great if this issue is solved in one of the next updates, or at least an option to prevent this behaviour.
     
  16. tdlarsen

    tdlarsen Forum Member

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    Thanks for the post.

    yes, that's strange. Why play 20ms from the old track?
    Hopefully it's muted in the next update..

    Don´t think that other systems have the same problem, some of my Dj buddys, uses Serato, and never complained about that kind of problem..
     
  17. nohiphop

    nohiphop NI Product Owner

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    943
    Serato is known for not having this problem,
    that is why many DJ who use DVS with CDJ prefer Serato
    ...
    I was told this many times and I believed this ...
    ...
    BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE
    ...
    Serato has the same problems !
    I played a few tracks with the system of a collegue and noticed exactly the same behaviour
     
  18. Ancipital

    Ancipital NI Product Owner

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    300
    Serato would need to come with a free time machine to avoid this. It's very clever software, but not quite that clever.
     
  19. E31

    E31 NI Product Owner

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    49
    like I said, the delay is indeed present on other timecode software like SSL, but it's far less noticable because the old position of the track isn't played before the software (for instance SSL) recognizes the current position of the track.

    Traktor outputs audio even when the current position of the track isn't yet recognized, for like 20ms. And that's what this issue is about ;)
     
  20. DiscoNova

    DiscoNova NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,207
    Interesting; by doing a simple calculation (based on the fact that sampling rate of CD is 44100 Hz) it seems like TSP needs 882 samples (currently not taking into account that there are two channels, left & right, of audio on the control CD) to know where it is. I must say that that sounds quite a large amount of data just for the "position information".

    If this is the case, why then do loops set in the CDJ work seamlesly? I'd suppose that there is the same 20ms latency always. From experience, this doesn't appear to be the case. Why is it that the "initial" position seeking takes such a crazy amount of time, but at other times we're only limited by the "normal" latency setting?

    Edit: And yes - why does the application play out audio if it doesn't know where it is and/or what audio it should be playing in the first place. Furthermore, this partly explains why the users who use control vinyls instead of control cd's have had less problems... even when you're holding the platter steady on vinyl, there is very tiny movement, which gives TSP something to analyze - in theory.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2009
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