unconventional bass sounds, what do you think?

Hello everyone. I have been using synthesizers for over 4 years now and oftentimes I can re-create most conventional sounds that I hear in the music I listen to. But certain sounds are completely beyond my knowledge. I cannot synthesize them for the life of me or come close to synthesizing them. I can't even speculate how they were created (which waveforms, type of modulation used, filters etc.,) Moreover these are not sounds that you will find in any factory sound bank of any soft synth or hardware synth. God knows that I have looked through many sound banks of various synths but found nothing close. I tried to synthesize these from scratch by brute force using various oscillator combinations, filter combinations FM and sync but nothing I tried could generate that kind of timbre. Here are two examples of such sounds:

http://kluong.phlegthon.com/codec/omnibass.mp3
http://kluong.phlegthon.com/codec/walkingtalking.mp3

If anyone has any ideas on how these bass sounds were created I would love to hear your opinions. The closest I got was with a sine wave synced up to a saw wave that was frequency modulating another sine wave, but the thing about mixing FM with Sync is that in most cases maybe 3 notes, at most, produce periodic sounds and this still did not do the original sounds any justice. One thing is clear: these sounds have very complex timbres not achievable by running conventional waveforms through filters and effects, but FM and sync can get pretty messy and there is no clear approach to adopt.

If anyone on this forum can synthesize these sounds and upload me the patches I'm willing to deposit $100US per each sound into your paypal account (I'm dead serious). It is not my intention to rip off the artist by using those exact sounds in my music but I do hear sounds in my head that have similar characteristics and If I understand how these sounds were created then I will understand how to create other variants. Thanks for listening,

 

I don't think synthesis alone is going to get you there 100%. If you listen carefully to Omnibass example, the formant shift follows the pitch bends exactly, which suggests a sampler. The original sound does sound like FM at least where it sounds like "ae-ae-ae". See if you can get close to that sound, then load it in a sampler. When you pitch it down it should turn more into a "oo-oo" sound due to the formant shift.

Walkingtalking is similar in concept, but it sounds like there are maybe 3 layers going on. One is the detuned sub, that one is easy, use two sine oscillators, one an octave above, then detune the low one about -30 cents, and the upper one about +30 cents. Then layer the FM thing loaded in a sampler, but that doesn't play on every note.

Could I come close to these sounds myself? Hell no!

 

just run over the cali ($200 will get you a fight there) and beat down cevin key, make him tell you what he and aDuck did for those tracks. i personaly haven't tryed to reproduce any download sounds (or SP for that matter) cevin and dwayne were crazy with programing, so the sound on a record could have had up to 10 years of reampling on it before it makes it into a record.
you might look up at the litany forum. there was a post there a while ago where they talked out what gear cevin was using and when. it might give you a clue.

 

I recall getting something similar to the bass in omniman a while back, I think I was using absynth, but I don't really REMEMBER what it was I did if find the sound tonight I'll let you know how I did it. As for walking talking try emailing Omar Torres @ NI he was working with Reaktor on that track and that bass sound is so uncharacteristic for the rest of the album that i think it was more likely him than cEvin.
Whilst on the subject does anyone know what download use for that moaning synth in affirmed (last track on effector). Bowie uses the same sound on earthling I forget which track.
I want that sound so bad.

 

It's a very complex sound. I have tried to build with MODULAR MINI 2.2.
(attachment is a bank with only one snap).
I have used four oscillators. (see attachment)
Bass pressure comes from SCO 4 (Sinus with P=-24)
"Schnarren (german)" (scratching?) from SCO 1 and SCO 2 which are ringmodulated rectangles.
SCO 3 sends only a very short "tweek" because it is Pitch-modulated (* 127) from an ADSR.
All audiosignals are mixed and send to two parallel filters.
SCF 2 pole has a very deep cutoff frequency so you hear nearly only sinus and sometimes a part of the ringmodulators output because the two oscillators have a small pitch-width-nonsymmetry. The filter is opened periodically by a LFO with a very very low frequency f=0.13Hz.
The second filter SCF 4 pole has a high cutoff frequency which is modulated by a random LFO with f=9.5Hz. So you have the impression of a "wha-wha". It is not depending from the pitch of pressed key so it is like a formant filter.
The envelopes for the amplifiers SCA are short.

The patch is only a try to get near that sound. But i think there are enough ideas to realize your sound. Have fun.

ciao herw

 

hi guys and thanks for the suggestions! sampling is something that I havent fully explored and I see that I can't solve all my problems with synthesis. I will keep on trying to get close to those sounds and If get something that sounds close I will post the ensamble. It would be cool to have threads were someone posts a sound example and then any willing sound designers try to replicate it. there is an abundance of ensembles in the user library but not enough interesting sounds so it would be cool to see some more sound design rather than synth design. this would be an excellent learning experience for anyone involved because I'm sure that we could all produce interesting variants. however not everyone works at the same pace. but lets try to keep this thread going and lets have other like it. maybe we could dedicate this thread to such an activity. anyone else is encouraged to post sounds that they would like to understand.

its always refreshing to see some download fans. download really stood out with synthesis and sound design aspects. they are probably one of the greatest but also underappreciated artists of our time. their sounds are baffling from a technical synthesis oriented perspective. Another such artist is Legion of Green Men in my opinion. Their albums are very rare (I saw one going for $100 somewhere). But you can probably order something directly from their label for a standard price www.postcontemporary.net. Spatial Specific is a masterpiece. I've had that album for nearly 10 years and I've never gotten bored of it. I just thought I'd share that with all of you.

 

I second that idea!

I have listened to electronic music since I was a child and have always been interested in the wonderful sounds and the technology used to create them.

I bought Reaktor about 18 months - 2 years ago with the intention of building synths to try and replicate some of the sounds I hear in the music I like to listen to. Please understand I only do this as a hobby, for my own pleasure, and to learn more about synth building and sound design. I don't intend to rip anyone off.

Since owning Reaktor I have learned quite a lot about building synths but my sound design skills have not improved much at all.

I hear a sound and think about how it may have been made. I know the sounds produced by the standard waveforms/modulation/FM/Sync/filtering/distortion etc so I start to build a synth to replicate the sound.
However I usually end up creating a completely different sound almost by accident, but rarely the one I was working on.

I've studied many of the Producer and Synth type forums on the web and "finding sounds by accident" seems to be a common occurrence for many people.

Is sound design really a black art or are those in the know just keeping it to themselves ?

 

ahh, Download, wierd, i just recently found that album with
omniman on it in my massive pile of CD's that i never have the energy to go thru. Skinny Puppy was like my staple throughout highschool (although admittadly i get tired of the ultra-harsh vocals alot now).

sorry, i cant help out here, just wanted to say how i was majorly influenced by cevin key as well.

 

Hmm i have tried to get close to the sound; did you have tried my patch or is your interest gone now?
ciao herw

 

I don't have the program you used to make the patch. I tried to re-create it on my reaktor synth but I wasnt sure what you mean by "It is not depending from the pitch of pressed key so it is like a formant filter." Can you post a sound example of your patch so that I know what it sounds like? Thanks,

 

You do have Reaktor don't you? Download Modular Mini 2 from the UL

 

herw,
the upload of the bank isn't upzipping right on my end. i recreated the patch from the photo but there is something missing. it might be a problem on my end. and i'll keep goofing with it. but just abount anything in the MM2 will sound cool.

 

LOL sorry herw. I had no idea that modular mini was an ensemble you built. after glancing at the attached picture I thought that this was a third party synth. I didn't notice your name in the top right corner before the modular mini. it certainly doesn't look like your average reaktor synth and obviously a lot of work went into it.

cool sounding patch. I must say that the the ring/amplitude modulation sounds really nice on your synth and it gives the patch most of its timbre. I'm embarrased to say that the ring modulator on my synth is a simple multiplication reaktor module =) now after looking at your synth I see that I have some work to do.I never really explored ring modulation in much depth. it's always been a kind of an obscure function that I didnt pay much attention to. I presume that when you said that filter 2 is not dependent on note pitch did you meant that keyboard tracking is turned off? or did you mean something else? Thanks for your interest! I will have to spend some time exploring your synth.