Unresponsive Mk3 pads, buttons, and encoders... (On boot up, windows)

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Mr36, May 19, 2020.

  1. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    8,264
    For at least a few weeks now, I've noticed that the pads, buttons, and encoders will be unresponsive after a system boot (turn on or restart) until I turn it off and on again. Running MASCHINE or Controller Editor does not fix it, though, oddly, the hardware still reacts and displays the various software elements correctly, it just doesn't function as a controller e.g., Shift+PLUGIN doesn't switch it to MIDI mode, pads/buttons/encoders do nothing to the software when launched. Not the worst issue in the world, but it is pretty irritating!

    Tried everything I can think of, including...
    • Windows (10 Pro) up-to-date
    • BIOS and motherboard etc. drivers up-to-date
    • Firmware and drivers are latest (as of this post)
    • Reinstalling Mk3 driver (without controller connected)
    • Manually uninstalling drivers, rebooting, installing fresh*
    • Reinstalling MASCHINE
    • Reinstalling Controller Editor
    • Checking driver installation in Device Manager
    • Manually pointing Device Manager to the Mk3 driver
    • Different USB ports
    • Different USB cables
    • With and without USB hubs (multiple different ones)**
    • Disabled all unnecessary start-up programs
    • Removing all unused or superfluous MIDI drivers on the system
    • Fast-boot disabled
    • Device Manager power/performance tweaks (i.e., disabled) for USB hubs/devices
    • USB Selective Suspend disabled

    Any other ideas anyone? One of the few times I need them and NI technical support is closed!

    *This appeared to work for a (re)boot or two, but then the issue returned.
    **A USB hub was only used when the test required it.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  2. Howl

    Howl NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    293
    i have also the problem, that i becomes partly unresponsive, others report the same thing.
    simple turning it of and on, is the way.

    EDIT: it is erratic, not always this will be the case.

    when i reboot, i always turn of my controllers, because i have too many, and they work at their best, when i power them up in the right order.

    do you turn maschine on before turning on your system? i always turn the controllers on, i repeat, when windows 10 is ready...
     
  3. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    8,264
    By partly, do you mean that some buttons/whatever do work? This is not the same for me.

    All of my USB-powered controllers are connected and turn on with the system. The Mk3 is the only one that has this issue.

    Turning on after Windows has booted or off/on again is the only workaround that works, but it's a workaround that this workaround-lover doesn't think should be necessary (and it wasn't always the case). Thanks for replying.
     
  4. Howl

    Howl NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    293
    yes it is different for other users, but in my case sometimes i don't see mixer signals, or a button doesn't work. mostly partly.
    why? i don't now. and some users experience a total "freeze" (i have that case only once or twice). mainly partly. but not always, can i switch between standalone and plugin, without problems.

    many people or many, report the problem. maybe not to support. i can live with it.
     
  5. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    8,264
    I know and have seen many reports myself about randomly freezing controllers etc., but I don't think this is the same issue as I'm having. In fact, I very rarely get that issue. My issue is that the controller is entirely unresponsive in terms of using it (pressing buttons, pads, whatever), but does still show the software and is not frozen, which happens consistently when booting up.
     
  6. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    8,456
    When this happens are the NI background services running? NIHardwareAgent and NIHostIntegrationAgent
     
  7. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,701
    I'm going to work on this tomorrow. See if I can reproduce this on my WIN system. I like to test.

    René
     
  8. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    8,264
    Yep, meant to mention that.

    Thanks. Much appreciated.
     
  9. BigPictureSound

    BigPictureSound NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    228
    I can confirm that my MK3 also freezes and needs to be powered off and on to restore to functioning. This is on mac Catalina, but has done it since way before that- always thought it was something to do with both the system and maschine software using the MK3 as primary sound output.

    In fact, when my system output is set to internal, not maschine mk3, I don’t think I have seen it freeze when launching Maschine.
     
  10. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    8,264
    Thanks for replying. From a few things you say, though, I suspect we have different issues. I very rarely get a controller freeze after it's started working, but I consistently get this freeze after (re)booting. Also, I have all soundcards/interfaces disabled for system sound (but have tested with it enabled and still get the same).
     
  11. BigPictureSound

    BigPictureSound NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    228
    I forgot to mention that the order of events for the freeze to happen is:

    Maschine powered on, computer powered on
    Launch maschine software
    Controller unresponsive, but left lower pad lit and MASCHINE text on displays
    Power cycle controller get ]s it working again

    Probably unrelated to what you are describing but at least you are in good company ;p
     
  12. macchinista

    macchinista NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    347
    I have had some weird issues with the Maschine software taking a long time to load after a reboot, also the hardware would freeze from time to time, almost always when my computer went to sleep. I noticed this started happening after installing a Komplete Kontrol keyboard. I uninstalled and reinstalled the Controller Editor software (there is a link on the NI website on how to do this properly), and things have since improved. I suspect the NIHardwareAgent and NIHostIntegrationAgent were the culprits for my issues. I am on Mac, btw.
     
  13. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    8,264
    Certainly sounds similar, but with a couple of key differences: mine is frozen on the MASCHINE screens (albeit with the "start software" message, so some communication with the system is happening) before starting any software i.e., can't enter MIDI mode and when starting the software, the controller looks like it's working (reflecting what's occurring in the software etc.), but nothing happens when using the controls.

    Thanks for the response. Again, I suspect this to be slightly different, but it might be worth me uninstalling any Komplete Kontrol drivers that aren't needed , then reinstalling Mk33 drivers and CE, to see if it makes any difference.
     
  14. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,701
    Tried several hours to reproduce this.
    Common procedures tried out.
    Hardware on / off during system startup.
    Hardware on / off when starting the Maschine 2 software.
    NTKDaemon, NIHardwareAccessibility on / off at startup.
    Set the system off / on via the switch.
    Restart the system via a soft reset.

    During these tests, (all) my hardware continues to work as expected.

    @ Mr36,
    Have you tried the various settings related to USB in the bios?

    René
     
  15. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    8,456
    I couldn't replicate in my windows system either, I've only tried a couple of reboots tho.

    Try the following:
    - Disable windows fast booting; there's an option for this both in the bios and in Control Panel > Power Options > System settings.
    - Disable "allow the computer to turn off the device to save power" in Device manager > Universal serial bus controllers
    If the above fails you can try:
    - Disable Selective Suspension; Control Panel > Power Options > Change Settings Scheme > Change Advanced Power Settings > USB Settings.

    My guess is windows for some reason is setting the device to low power mode on a fresh boot, but this is just a guess...
     
  16. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,701
    Sorry I forgot to report.
    With my system, none of the connected USB devices can influence Windows in any form.
    You can indeed specify this in the Windows device manager.

    René
     
  17. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    8,264
    Well, I'm glad that everything still works for you (genuinely!). Thank you so much for spending any time investigating this, especially so much.

    Alas, yes, that's something else I forgot to include in my initial post. There aren't many options in my BIOS, unfortunately, but what is there makes no difference.

    Thanks for looking into it, much appreciated. Unfortunately, these are a staple for me and should have been included in my list above, as they're things I always have (and regularly check, as Windows updates have an uncanny knack of re-enabling the USB power-saving settings, for example).

    Sorry, I don't think I follow. What do you mean?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
  18. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,701
    See post the of D-one.

    René
     
  19. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    8,264
    Ah, the USB power/performance stuff. Yeah, that's all checked out too. I wish it was just that!
     
  20. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    8,456
    Humm.. Try this: after boot manually restart the NI background services and see if the controller starts working, if it does you can possibly add a bash script with a service restart command after a small delay - if this bothers you to that point.
    I bet whatever the solution is it requires editing some regedit obscure crap.