Usb 3.0 - Yes-No?

i have no idea atm. but i'll be in the office next week and the whole usb3 thingy is on my top list.

 

thats good to hear! i was so afraid that there is no solution native can do since some ppl posted horrible things in the german forum.

the mac solution seems to work great and i understand that mac users are your primary clients but i hope you wont forget us windows ppl tho.

 

they'll come up with stuff for sure, but i have no timeframe etc.

also, i want to understand the technical side a bit better. right now there seems to float around so much wrong info here and in the german thread but i'm not yet deep enough in that issue to filter the right stuff out.

 

Lion Trouble Shooting

Apple view on the whole thing:

 

BTW: it is claimed here that NEC-chips are to blame (in short), but this also isn't the case.

I'm on a Dell Inspiron 17R Special Edition, which uses Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller (DriverVer=02/27/2012,1.0.4.220) and it also immediately pops up a BSOD when connecting the S4. Uninstalling the drivers did the trick, as I mentioned earlier, but that takes away the USB3.0 functionality...

 

Just to tell you that all new MAC hardware has a Intel Chipset, and they worked together with Intel to solve the issue.

This is NOT similar to Windows, and dont expect a NI driver update as fast as for MAC, it is not possible! Believe it or not. Windows has a totally different driver architecture, this is one of the reasons why it harder for software devolopers to write stable and fast drivers for windows, unless for MAC. Many things are better and more stable on MAC because of the OS itself, and this is why many more users nowadays and in the past have MAC for Audio, Video and Graphics applications. due to the fact, that are so many different haardwares, mainboard, chipset, drivers out there for PC that it is nearly impossible to get a driver working with ALL hardware around. I know NI is able to manage it if they contact each USB Chipset + Driver developer and find a possible way for different chipsets, but this is not indeed not what NI HAVE to do, they never developed their hardware and software for USB3.0, and as it should be downwards compatible they dont have to at all. So my respects go out to NI that they are working hard to try to fix it!

 

It was clear that USB3.0 was coming and that it would become the standard, so: no,I'm not impressed with the fact that I get some (albeit shitty) support for a 1000+ dollar device (+200 for a flightcase) I bought just half a year ago from their company.

I WOULD be impressed if they had taken preemptive measures, but they haven't, so I'm not too impressed. Still hope they can fix it, that would soften the blow somewhat.

 

Best comparison i have ever heard!

To compare a NI S4 Controller with a RME device is useless, RME uses their own USB chipset, they developed the hardware and software by themself.

NI uses 3rd party hardware for most of their products, so they dependent on the 3rd party vendors for driver updates, or in the worst case, the built-in usb controller is not guarenteed to work with usb3.0.

 

My point is: NI is to blame for this mistake, nobody else. NI chose to do business with their suppliers and they produce the endproduct, so they're responsible for possible errors. No pathetic excuses involving design faults, premature technology, etc. needed.

NI:"don't come telling customers now "we're sorry, but we aren't to blame"; you are. You sold it, it doesn't work, so fix it.

 

nope.

when they designed their interfaces there was no USB 3.0 on the horizon.
they didnt sell usb 3.0 devices, but usb 2.0 devices.

when usb 3.0 came on the table they reacted - as you can take from the compatibility list, the newer interfaces do work.

 

November 17, 2008: specification USB3.0 complete
November 2009: first USB3.0 consumer products were announced and shipped
January 5, 2010: First certified USB3.0 consumer products were announced
November 1st, 2010: Release Kontrol S4

So come again?

My Kontrol S4 does NOT work with USB3.0; instant crash (which is also evidence of really **** programming: bad exception handling).

I'll never get the money I paid for it back, otherwise I would sell it this minute. First and last piece of NI-gear I'll ever get. And if NI doesn't fix this fast I'll start spreading the word (got hundreds of DJ's, producers and party organisations in my social network; mostly Netherlands, but also other countries). A instant bad reputation is only a mouseclick away these days...

 

WOW!

Did NI make 3.0 hardware?
Does anyone make specific 3.0 hardware?(soundcards)
Was 3.0 advertised as fully backward compatible?
Is Ni the only company a person can blame? Or ask for a solution?

Comparison:

If you bought a new modern home that all the electrical outlets took a (fictional) 4 pronged energy saving plug. Could you then blame all manufacturers for not updating their appliances? Even if the seller told you "these outlets are fully backwards compatible!".

Or in that case would you be upset with the seller?

I know people are frustrated but place blame were it is due. Ni did not make 3.0 or 1.0.
What they did was make a product for what was at the time a standard of 2.0.

And from some of the whispers around the web. 3.0 may not stick around either.

Funny I hear no rants from anyone about why their 1.1 usb connections dont work. I have 2 ports that are 1.1 btw. For a computer to be released without optical drive or ethernet, or any port at all except the 3.0 is kinda limited?


Oh and the consumer products released? Are any of those soundcards or for audio streaming? Most are just hardrives. No one including the 3.0 developers cared or tried to verify audio streaming over that new fast connection. To say NI should have and should have made all their products ready for it. Well I just would have to wonder how many laptops or any were available to test the 3.0 connection? I know when I bought mine no mention of 3.0 was even there. Now 4 years later, a model is made with only?

Really not trying to bash. I just think people may be directing anger at NI when it is the whole computer industry to blame.

 

you're absolutely right, zephry.

p.s.: @TimMer1981: the soundcard in the s4 is basically a audio 4 that was announced on namm 2009, you can imagine how much in advance the soundcard was designed.

 

Well said Zephry!

Sometimes people just sound like little spoilt kids. "Oh if NI don't do this I will tell people this and that" as if that will work.

NI products (and other companies with other products) are not 100% perfect but they do have great products. And for the majority of people that use them, they get the job done.

All we can do is see what NI brings out next.

 

you can chill all i got the info now that the drivers which fixed the problem with macs are the same needed for windows since its the same hardware in the macs as it is in the windows laptops with usb 3 problems.

so NI has basically already fixed the issue they only have to make the beta drivers which work for mac installable in windows 7 64bit. that cant take too long.

but again mac is their priority and maybe they are still fixing around the mac beta drivers to make them rock solid and then only switch completly to windows. thats what sounds most logical to me.

 

I find it hard to believe that there are still people out there defending NI for their abysmal USB 3.0 support. The least they could have done is go public with the issue and describe what steps they are taking to get this resolved. I can't believe that any company is still this slow to respond to problems like this at our day and age. And I hope that there will be some internet backlash on Facebook and the like.

I do NOT blame them that USB 3.0 obviously seems to work differently from what NI engineers thought to be the case, but I am blaming them for the way they have responded so far. Simply saying that it is other people's fault is the cheapest way out. I'm offended and disappointed by the way they are handling this mess. And I would not have bought my Kontrol S4 had I known beforehand!

 

im not defending NI. im also having problems due to the fact that their drivers are not usb 3 compatible. but its not only their fault + it doesnt help much to blame them. the fact that their main customers are mac users is the reason why windows users are left with nothing at the moment.

if lets say 80% of my customers were mac users i would also focus all my ressources to help them first and then the windows people.

well what i wanted to say with my post was more to calm you down that the problem is already solved it only has to be done for us 2nd priority customers as we are. of course NI should have been more talkative to us but the problem is in many companys the people who are in touch with us the customers are no techis and cant explain it that good so maybe its better not spread something wrong... so they just say nearly nothing but work is in progress. and thats all they can do without technical knowledge of this complex problem.

you can blame them if they dont manage to translate the mac drivers into windows in the next 2 weeks but im sure they will provide the right drivers for us too before this timeframe.

ps. im sure the day they start with the work on the windows driver is the day before a windows beta driver is released. translating should not be a big issue even im not a programmer but its mainly the installer part which should be different. i pray everyday that they finish their work on the macs lol...

 

From where do you get the idea that 80% of traktor users are Mac users? According to a forum mod, there's an even split between PC and Mac users.

 

well thats only a rough guess. one reason why i think so is that there is not 1 single windows thread about this problem but a 17 pages mac thread. another reason is the german tech support told me that the big majority of their customers are mac users and thats why they focused on them and brought the beta drivers for mac first. i might be wrong on this tho... whats your explanation for the reason mac users gets the better and faster support?

 

from the survey figures i got once, it was pretty even mac-win. i dont have the figures from the last survey, maybe it changed during the interval.

anyways, maybe the issue is not so pressing for win users, since not all win laptops come out with ONLY usb3.0 ports like mac. these mac users tend to buy everything off the shelf the minute it's released, that's a bit different on the win side.