Usb 3.0 - Yes-No?

my laptop also has usb 2 ports. but it doesnt matter if there are esata, usb 2 or other additional ports on the boards. if the windows laptop has usb 3 (and every new ivy bridge has it) it has the intel drivers installed which interfere with the NI drivers and causes bluescreen of death.

its not only for the laptops with only usb 3 ports its regarding every new laptop with usb 3 also the ones with usb 2 or other ports. as long as it is an ivy bridge model.

the issue is identical to the mac problem its only anohther OS.

 

absolutely^^^

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sometimes, i also get the impression that the mac crowd is more vocal and demanding about issues than the windows folks.

consider the following: the average sale price of a windows consumer laptop is about 500 Euros or 500 US$. idk what the average mac laptop goes for. but taking into account that the cheapest apple laptop is about a grand and that not everyone buys the cheapest model, it follows that the typical consumer that opts for a mac as opposed to a pc pays at least twice at much, but probably closer to three times as much as a typical pc buyer.

if you spend sooo much money, obviously you tend to get upset when it's not working as you hoped.

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on another note, apple effs its users over when it comes to ports. i don't consider this statement a rant, i consider it a fact.

look at display connectors: for at least 10 years, almost any mainstream pc laptop included a vga port. the switch to digital display outs was gradual and often you got the digital port *in addition* to vga. furthermore, producers went for widely adopted, mainstream digital ports such as HDMI. now look at macs. apple went away from vga super-early. first, they switched to mini-DVI. then they switched to mini-displayport. last year, they switched to thunderbolt. not only do they switch every blue moon, but they also go for highly non-standard ports so that they can nickel-and-dime you with adapters and cables.

look at other peripheral ports:
apple pushed firewire for a number of years (an interface far less popular than USB), then they suddenly drop it (neither the latest retina MBP nor the MB air has it anymore). moreover, it is bizarre that they brought thunderbolt to their laptops over a year prior to adding usb 3.0 ports.

the thunderbolt interface was basically useless for the first year (no peripherals supported it). arguably, it still has far fewer applications than usb 3.0.

and now apple brings usb 3.0--very late in the game. and they introduce it with a bang, immediately dropping all usb 2.0 ports. and i don't find it so surprising that the abrupt switch gives rise to issues--and not just among NI audio interface users.

compare this to the pc laptop market, where manufacturers gradually phased in usb 3.0 over a period of about three years. over those three years, we regularly saw problems with usb 3.0 ports among windows users popping up in the forums. but typically, there was a simple workaround (just use one of the usb 2.0 ports).

the fact that apple dropped usb 2.0 from one day to the next in its macbook line certainly helps to explain the sudden explosion of posts about issues with usb 3.0.

 

i agree with everything you wrote its indeed the funny truth. but it wouldnt make any difference in this case if the new apples would have usb 2 or other ports. they would have the same problem anyway same as the windows users.

and maybe it helps us windows users now that there was such an apple user rant cause the manufacturer are working now on the problem.

we can only wait now till NI starts to work on the translation of the mac beta drivers into windows.... any idea when that may be DJ Freshfluke?

 

NI made a product that is not compatible with a standard interface of which they already knew it would become the new standard. And NI is the only company I've had USB3.0-problems with.

If the seller designed those plugs at the time that the standard blueprint was availabe: yes.

I'm glad they didn't, otherwise they would've messed those up too. But they do have to comply to the standards, which they obviously didn't.

BS: USB3.0 was already widely available at that time.

Trust me, I've been around enough to be able to say this: USB3.0 will more and more become and stay the standard for years to come. Apple may try to force Intel's Thunderbolt upon the markt, but it will never succeed; it will remain a nichemarket.

Your point? Where are you trying to go with this?

Four years? The S4 got releases less than two years ago.

Most the time: yes. But not this time. Money back is also fine, but I want a solution for this ASAP.

Calling paying 1000 dollars for a piece of gear and complaining if it doesn't work correctly is being spoilt? You have a very strange point of view on this world my friend...

If you lack the skills to produce proper equipment, don't produce at all. That's all I'm saying.

And piss away another grand on a useless piece of gear? No thanks.

You're right: WAY too much in advance. An error only made by amateurs.

And even worse: NI asks a sick amount of money for an old product they already had lying around plus some extra plastic parts. They should be deeply ashamed; this would never have happened if it was developed by an Asian company: at least they take honor and pride in their work and products and try to serve the customer as well as they can, instead of saying "thanks for the cash and now f*ck off".

 

you obviously have no idea of what you're talking about, so i will laugh away this one.

oh and talking about following "standards"... like apple when they gave one of their precious two usb2 ports not enough power? but sure, that's in your opinion NIs fault too.

and i guess, if it rains today, it's NIs fault too. geez.

 

If you bought the 3.0 laptop 1st then bought the s4 knowing it was 2.0 device.
That would be just a dumb move right. If I went and bought this a 3.0 only laptop right now. would it be ok for me to get mad?

So to buy the 3.0 only laptop without knowing and find out there is a problem. Is not a stupid move. But it is still the incorrect equipment. No matter how irritating it is.

2.0 has been the standard data flow for at least 4years and even as 1.0 there was no change in the actual hardware. The cable and the plug have had the same innerworkings.

Sorry but 3.0 does fit into the hub but is not the standard data flow and cable that has been used for the past (dare I say) 8-10 years.
Virtually everything has been made at that level.

So the argument that NI made a product that should work with usb3.0 standard is way off.

3.0 has been in development and is becoming more and more used. But not until this year has it been an issue for anyone. And not until recent months has it been known widely that streaming audio was a big deal. And those laptops 3.0 only are the first you cant just switch ports on.

No one is asking apple if they knew audio streaming would be a problem. My guess is they knew and just plain did not care compared to the buyers that would snatch the products up. Why was something like this made to work to begin with?

Oh well people are gonna get mad anyway. That is just how it goes.
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Plus timmer
You really should search on what products are specific usb 3.0.
Not really any specified for audio. Yet every soundcard made to this point is rated 2.0 (standard)

 

No offence to you but I always do a strict research before I buy any products. Whining about stuff will not fix things. You have some choices to make sad to say. Either you cut your loses and get rid of your NI products or get an older mac (or PC) that has USB 2.0.

I do get what you're saying and I can only imagine the big disappointment you feel that your gear is not compatible with your computer.

Researching about a product you want to purchase is a must. I knew that USB 3.0 might not be compatible with NI's products so I made sure that the laptop I bought not only has USB 3.0 but also has USB 2.0 just incase, because NI's site doesn't say anything about USB 3.0 compatible.

 

they do meanwhile:
http://www.native-instruments.com/support/online-help/compatibility/mac-os-x-compatibility

 

btw any news when they will provide us with windows beta drivers for usb 3? could you ask them please when they start to programm the windows version of the mac drivers?

 

I find it funny that there are no known issues with Windows 7 computers ...

http://www.native-instruments.com/en/support/online-help/compatibility/windows-7/?type=99

just sayin' ... maybe time to update the page :|

 

uhoh look at the date when they last tested windows compatibility. if thats the real status of NI`s knowledge about windows we got a problem.

i get the feeling the tech support guy i was talking with just wanted to calm me down by saying they are working on this issue. it looks more like they dont even know about it at all.

the mods are no technicians but why is it too hard to answer simple questions about when they start to solve this problem...but maybe my question should have been "do they even know about it?".

 

In the meantime: is there a workaround?

Uninstalling the driver and reverting to USB 2.0 mode also doesn't seem to be the perfect solution, as the S4 sometimes loses connection to Traktor (buttons don't work anymore, have to turn the unit off and on again).

Been searching for a couple of days now, but still haven't found a good workaround. Some possible solutions:

- USB 2.0 hub in between the USB 3.0 port and the S4: depends on whether this will make the USB 3.0 port switch back to true 2.0 mode or not. If the port translates it back to 3.0 code it's useless.

- Find a USB 2.0 controller that connects to a USB 3.0 port. Same story as the other option, but this might be a better chance.

Too bad my laptop doesn't have an Expresscard interface...

 

yep that is exactly the issue leaving off usable ports. it sucks.

 

And another idea that popped into my head: if one were to use an external soundcard, would this solve the problem (as audio streaming seems to be the source of the problem)? Or will the S4 still cause problems with USB 3.0 when only sending MIDI-data to Traktor?

Also would suck, as USB-ports are scarce on laptops and hubs usually don't do much good for stability, reliability and latencies of connected gear, but it beats crashing or having to disable USB 3.0 altogether.

 

yeah, i think there'll follow a a statement there, too. but it seems that the issues on win are not so pressing like on mac?

anyways, i cant provide a date for news on that side right now, but of course, they're working on the win side as well.

 

Maybe the win customers are not so pressing than the mac customers but the issue is the exact same.

do you hope they are working on the win side or do you know first hand that they are doing so? from what i understand they are not even aware of it at all...

at least you show up here thats something i take positive. please ask for more infos and a statement about the current windows situation.

i dont think that is too much demanded. there was no statement about windows and NI hardware at all since ...well half a year.

 

nope, that's not the case. stop suggesting a bad attitude of NI in each of your postings!
you can even see it from the forums here, compare the amount of mac and win users that are complaining.

i know of course. *shaking my head*

 

sry i didnt want to suggest anything. but i cant see where i said something bad about NI. i only said you think maybe the problem is not so pressing for windows customers cause they are not so much complaining in the forums...thats what i wanted to point at.

mac users are complaining more and maybe get support first thats what mark of NI berlin tech support told me. he also didnt know that windows users got the same problems mac users are having. he said he is using only mac for a long time now and dont know much about windows systems..specially new ones. he logically asked me why he should settle to windows after a long time on mac without problems. i understood of course.

however sorry for saying something bad about NI maybe..it wasnt meant to DJ Freshfluke! maybe im a bit stressed seeing that the mac users problem is solved and we are still waiting for even a statement.

ok thats great news indeed then! any details?

btw im a big fan of NI soundcards since a long time now also the tech support was great when you call them directly! dont get me wrong pls!

 

see my posting a few posts above. i can imagine several reasons why it's probably not so pressing for win users so far.

again: no.

so maybe he's a mac specialist and doesnt get to see the win support requests?

aight. one love.

i'll visit the office on friday. i'm not sure if i get info that i can release here - NI usually wants to do that by themselves, but i will see what i can do.

 

Nobody?