1. Hi everyone,

    We have just announced our latest version of the Komplete bundles.

    Find out more about the bundles and the newly added instruments

    Komplete 13 is available for pre-order now, and will become available for download on October 1, 2020.

    Best wishes, 
    The NI Team

    Dismiss Notice

User kits and patterns

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by ew, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    21,328
    If you wish to post user kits and/or patterns, here's the thread for it.

    Note that if you post kits with other sample content than the factory content, you must have the right to redistribute the samples. Most (if not all) third party libraries expressly prohibit redistribution of the content.

    ew
     
  2. Lancellot

    Lancellot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    447
    Just to clarify...

    ...are we allowed to post samples from soft synths, or only hardware? :confused:

    IOW, can I sample eg: Rob Papen "Blue", Sonic Charge "µTonic", etc...

    ... or only hardware like EMS, Moog, Korg, Roland, etc...?
    :confused: :confused:

    For example:
    Can I post a kit I sampled from the Virus TI?

    I am having a hard time understanding the rules here...

    ...or are they as simple as:
    "do not re-post samples from sample libraries like Big Fish"...etc...?

    ?

    If I own the soft/hardware, do I have the right to post samples?....

    ?
     
  3. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,760
    i would say:

    "do not re-post samples from sample libraries like Big Fish"

    i would say yes you can post a kit that you sampled from one of your Software or Hardware Synths.

    sowari
     
  4. Suicide Server

    Suicide Server Forum Member

    Messages:
    515
    Hey guys,

    i know this is not a lawyer forum but think thats a pretty interessting problem we have here. What if i take an 808 sample from lets say goldbaby as my starting point and add some fx and then resample it. Can i post this or not ?

    Cheers
     
  5. Lancellot

    Lancellot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    447
    ^ ...as sowari said:

    A big, fat NO!
    ;)

    ####edit####
    ...but how about Plugins whch are sample based?
    eg. Spectrasonics Stylus RMX?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  6. Suicide Server

    Suicide Server Forum Member

    Messages:
    515
    Im actually have a different understanding, as i think sowari meant if you post an original sample without any work done to it ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    21,328
    Spectrasonics- definitely not. Read the EULA...

    ew
     
  8. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,760
    that is what i meant.

    btw, there are loads of 808 and 909 samples in Maschine..where did they come from?

    ;)

    sowari
     
  9. Lancellot

    Lancellot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    447
    ^
    Please explain the word "re-working" samples.

    So, all I need to do is add an FX like an EQ, or yet (another) limiter, compressor, etc, or pitch the original sound, re-sample it and then I can repost it?

    Is this how the NI lib was done?
    If yes, IMHO, this would not be legal!

    Taking this as a hint...
    From that statement I would guess that the 808/909 sounds are indeed edited Goldbaby ones....right?

    Did NI, or any of their content providers sample the 808/909 from scratch?

    Did the content providers go through the "Goldbaby" process?

    It`s either yes or no!
    If the answer is yes, then it makes sense, and I understand.
    If the answer is no, then NI has infringed upon the Goldbaby EULA and are reselling their library with minuscule changes.

    My understanding of any EULA is, that NO samples from ANY library can be used no matter how one bends the sample....fullstop!

    Be honest, taking samples from any library, and "reworking" them with maximizers and FX cannot be OK....or is it?
    If it is, then this is a legal loophole, which can in NI`s world be applied to any re-sampling. :confused:

    According to ew, it`s a defo NO regarding the Spectrasonics lib...
    I do not see the difference.

    Why can`t I then repost re-sampled Spectrasonics sounds, with a NI FX?

    Admins/Mods, please post detailed instructions rather than ambiguous half sentenced short statements like:
    Please explain in a full sentence what you mean and what is allowed.

    This whole topic needs to be revised, renamed, stickied, and explained in plain english before it goes any further.

    Please clarify for the avoidance of doubt.

    NI, thank you in advance for a detailed statement.

    ••• I have intentionally repeated myself in this post to make sure that it will be answered with more than 5 words before I upload anything here. •••

    Thank you.
    ;)
     
  10. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,760
    sorry but that is not what i meant.... and after thinking about it, it was a stupid offhand comment for me to make. i do know that the Steroid 808 and 909 kits were made by recording the original drum machines onto Tape (a hot tape saturated signal) and then samped from the tape. i know this because the sound designer responded to some praise on the beta list. as to the other samples, NI have very complex contracts with beta testers and sound designers and i am sure no one would break these agreements.

    NB! whist writing this i googled Goldbaby (i didn't know about them before) and i realise that is how they recorded their samples.

    anyway, i have sent NI a load of questions regards to what is acceptable and what is not. someone has got back to me saying that they are looking into all of this. when i know more, i will inform people here.

    so until that happens, i suggest people only upload samples from their own hardware gear.... or sample their own patches from their software synths.

    sowari
     
  11. res308

    res308 Forum Member

    Messages:
    425
    Can we resample/ make our own kits from the factory user banks and share them here? Of course not just copying, but modifying (edit /fx/ eq , like bassline made from 808 kit for example etc...)
    Sounds silly, but as there are third party suppliers like loopmasters i would like to know for shure first.

    Also what about stuff i make from "free" websites like using the samples / rex files uploaded at reasonstation, or the 10 free mothly loops from plp, think that is ok?

    And last one what about sampling from demo software (from ni or others like microtonic 4 example, using a (slightly) tweaked preset...?

    Thx res
     
  12. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,760
    from someone at NI:

    - Samples from the Maschine Factory can not be uploaded to the forum, referring to the NI licence agreement:
    "Individual samples, sound sets or audio loops may not be distributed (commercially or otherwise) standalone."


    so (the way i understand it) that means you should not use any of the factory folder samples from Maschine or any other NI product, - even if they have been changed in some say- and re-distribute them and/or upload them here.


    on all occasions you need to adhere to the license agreement. i strongly doubt that loopmasters would like seeing any of their samples re-distributed here or anywhere else. i also suspect that the site that has "free" samples might say that the samples cannot be re-distributed... yes, no?

    and the same goes for tweaking of demo software....please don't re-distribute it here.

    sowari
     
  13. res308

    res308 Forum Member

    Messages:
    425
    First thanks for the quick response Sowari.

    But i have some gripes with the following: "Individual samples, sound sets or audio loops may not be distributed (commercially or otherwise) standalone."
    This would even mean it's not legal to exchange projects with a friend (online or irl) for example to collab. Seems silly as all maschine owners also own the right to use the sample lib when they bought it, i can of course understand that selling the sample lib on ebay is a nono.

    The solution could be if we have the possibility to save the changes to a sample without the actual sample in a protected format only maschine reads (self contained format, think reason's refill format), specific for online collab.

    Personaly i think this thread is going nowhere since it started, because let's face it, we can't use the library we paid for, free sites are a grey area (if you don't know where the sample is from, you can't use it), demo software is a nono (understandable), i don't use hardware (even that is a grey area), i use presets from soft synths that are not so much tweaked (insert filter delay, adjust adsr..) don't play any instruments, don't have a recording booth wich is just ok because my vocal talent is the same as a pig in the slaughterhouse..

    To add to that exchanging samples, sounds, patterns etc is import / export hell galore so please ni, let's have a self contained, easy to exchange file format.
     
  14. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,760
    EDIT May 1st


    i would say it is definitely not ok to upload stuff from reasonstation or peace love productions.

    btw, NI sould create a Maschine User LIbrary that would make this a lot easiser and more flexible in terms of what res308 is saying self contained, easy to exchange file format that only Maschine owners can use.

    sowari
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
  15. Lancellot

    Lancellot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    447
    I actually have some sounds I sampled from my analog synths which I still own.
    (EMS, Korg MS, Moog, JD800, etc...)
    I just need to find the time to "import" them into the Maschine.

    Why is this a "grey" area...?...

    If this is a NO as well, then I agree that this is going nowhere.
    But it is my understanding that I can do this.

    I`m not going to put up any patterns, because if someone would use them, they would need to give me at least a production/writing credit.
    :p ;)
     
  16. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,760
    let's be a bit more positive about what we can do :D

    probably the easiest thing to do is create some patterns.

    why not upload patterns that use Pop Piano, Mark II Classic or some Bass Patterns or Guitar (Electric and Acoustic) or Vibraphone, etc, etc?

    also people can make some new patterns for the supplied kits.

    as to sampling: now is the time to create some Analogue or FM drum samples with your software and hardware synths.

    also if you have recorded a real drummer in your studio, you could sample some 1 or 2 bar grooves into Maschine an slice them.

    same with any other real instruments that you might have recorded. come on there must be some guitarists out there? record some loops and make them available for Maschine :cool:

    there are loads of things that people can upload that don't go into the grey areas.

    sowari
     
  17. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,760
    i would say this would be fine. looking forward!

    sowari
     
  18. res308

    res308 Forum Member

    Messages:
    425
    Yeah you're right, but you have to agree sampling sources are a delicate thing, when bands like daft punk can get away with sampling whole songs and others get almost sued almost for using a sine wave (not realy, but you know what i mean :confused: )

    Now i'll quit moaning and gonna see what i can fabricate :D
     
  19. sowari

    sowari Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    27,760
    what is important here is that NI don't get sued because someone has uploaded a "dodgy" sample onto this forum ;)

    what artists do or don't get away with is fine as long as it has nothing to do with uploading stuff here.

    sowari
     
  20. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    21,328
    Correct. Under German law, NI's liable for the content of the forum.

    ew