Vintage Organs vs B4II

Discussion in 'B4 & B4 II' started by fenderchris, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. fenderchris

    fenderchris New Member

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    I recently bought into Kontakt-5 and the Vintage Organs plugin because I assumed that NI would naturally transfer all of the great features of the B4II plugin to the Vintage Organs plugin, at the same time giving it 64-bit compatibility. Unfortunately it does not. Here are some of the reasons why:

    B4II has much more flexible Tonewheel options (emulating organs of different ages and conditions).

    B4II has much more flexible options for Percussion, Vibrato, Treble rotor, Bass rotor, Microphone place, Reverb and Bass pedals.

    B4II has much more flexible Controller assignments that enable me to map the drawbars and other controls on my hardware Viscount DB3 Organ keyboard to the B4II. The fact that VO can not do this is particularly annoying as I can no longer use my keyboard with VO - it only supports NI B4D (DISCONTINUED!) and the Doepfer D3C (very hard to get, has no playable keyboard and is very expensive).

    B4II has much more flexible Drawbar options.

    B4II has a much better collection of supplied organ sounds.

    B4II has much better Preset management options.

    Giving the new plugin the same wooden skin as B4II is not enough - it also needs to be at least as good as B4II !

    @NI: Any plans to improve VO?
     
  2. bigdaddywagon

    bigdaddywagon NI Product Owner

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    Agree 1000% not to mention the tuning issue in VO. B4II is still my first choice.
     
  3. BlackImpact

    BlackImpact Forum Member

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    Is there going to be a B4 III or is Vintage organs going to be the end all be all?
     
  4. fenderchris

    fenderchris New Member

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    Could somebody from NI respond to the questions in this thread?

    If B4II is not going to be made 64-bit and Vintage Organs is going to remain as it is (a weak substitute for B4II) I would like my money back - I don't need VO as it is and therefore don't need Kontakt-5.

    I thought NI were better than this!
     
  5. bigdaddywagon

    bigdaddywagon NI Product Owner

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    Don't expect a positive answer on this. They have moved on to a 64 bit platform and B4II is 32 bit. I have installed it on a dedicated machine along with Pro53 so I don't have performance issues. Believe me, I am looking for alternatives but, nothing compares to B4II for performance, sound, portability and price. I am drooling over the Hammond SK1 but it's expensive.
     
  6. nilesp

    nilesp NI Product Owner

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    FWIW I use B4 II in a 64bit enviroment bridged by JBridge and it works flawless. So when you own B4 II and are happy with it, you would be better of paying €14,- for Jbridge instead of buying NI's Kontakt version.
    Same goes for Pro-53 of course.
     
  7. BIF

    BIF NI Product Owner

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    NI's business model is to make a new instrument (or a new version of an existing instrument) and sell it separately for a year or so, then eventually fold it into Komplete +1.

    When making a new version of an existing one, such as the replacements for Akoustik, Electrik, and Vintage Organs, the replacements in Kontakt always seem somewhat .. "less".

    My suggestion is to go the Jbridge route. Eventually there'll be ANOTHER organ instrument from NI. And a year after that, it'll be included with the next version of Komplete so you'll get it anyway if you upgrade Komplete.

    If you're pressed for time, then there are some very good replacements available now. A few strategic searches at KVR will reveal several viable alternatives.
     
  8. dickie001x

    dickie001x NI Product Owner

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    The VB3 from GSi is on par if not better that B4 II, in my opinion.
     
  9. musicman1976

    musicman1976 New Member

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    quite a bit of configuration, and vo is a pretty decent clonwheel. mostly midi config, amp tone and balance, i am going to work on the leslie tonight. Any suggestions on making it sound wider? I have extension jacks on my simmons d200a, so maybe another MacGuyver addition - satellite speakers!
    ---
    tuning issue ; master set to 435.65
     
  10. fenderchris

    fenderchris New Member

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    Yes, I do use B4II with jBridge and it does work, but I now run a completely 64bit, 21st Century system and B4II is the only non 64-bit product I use.

    The makers of all of the other plugins I use have paid attention to customer requirements and now provide 64-bit versions of their plugins (for example Arturia, Celemony, fxpansion BFD2 etc.) - all except Native Instruments.
     
  11. nilesp

    nilesp NI Product Owner

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    B4 is dropped a long time ago.
    You can't expect vendors to keep updating their discontinued products.
    All the currently supported NI stuff is 64bit.
     
  12. fenderchris

    fenderchris New Member

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    I fully understand that, but it would not be all that difficult to convert to 64-bit.

    B4II is a very popular plugin and, so far, NI have not replaced it with anything better, be it 64-bit, 32-bit or 2-bit (although VO may fall into the latter category!).
     
  13. dickie001x

    dickie001x NI Product Owner

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    I don't think it was that popular - otherwise why would they have dropped it?
     
  14. bigdaddywagon

    bigdaddywagon NI Product Owner

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    Dickie,
    B4 is still the best sounding Tonewheel emulator for live use out there. It was wildly popular and is still a 32-bit hold out in many gig rigs. VO does NOT compare in any way and in my opinion, useless as a live solution for a keyboardist. I may go back to a Hammond keyboard or module in the near future so I can update to 64-bit with Kore 2. The Pro53 is my only other 32-bit holdout besides B4II.
    To say it was not popular is inacurate.
     
  15. nilesp

    nilesp NI Product Owner

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    Maybe the change of business model!

    Anyone who used and uses B4, knows it runs circles around the library version. With options like leakage, click encoder, rotator encoder, percussion decay encoder, harmonic encoder, vibrato mix and depth, extensive rotor controls etc. etc.
    In other words, any enthusiast willing to tweak, won't need another library to fulfill their organ needs.
    And that's bad for business ;)
     
  16. bigdaddywagon

    bigdaddywagon NI Product Owner

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    Well stated nilesp!
     
  17. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

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    So do y'all think B4II beats VO for creating cd-quality tracks as well? I use the demo every now and then but I think VO comes much closer to the organ sounds on for example Solomon Burke's album "Don't give up on me". I really miss the leakage option though.
    Funny enough the Factory Library Hammond samples are even better then VO, must be because the tonewheel combinations are not emulated but sampled. That's different from adding polished tonewheel samples.
     
  18. nilesp

    nilesp NI Product Owner

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    nielsdolieslager, I think it's subjective to state which one is better sound wise. It fully depends on what kind of sound you're after. When I compared VO and B4 with similar settings I tend to say VO sounded "cleaner". If you're after that sound, VO may be your thing to go with. I like the sound a little smokey and dirty and that's something B4 can do very well.

    To be clear, I don't say VO isn't a good product. It just isn't a substitute for B4, it's a different product. And that bugs me.

    B4 isn't perfect either (personally I don't like its overdrive for instance), but with some minor work it still is one of the coolest virtual organs out there, due to its tweakability, low CPU use and small memory footprint.
    If they only would port it to 64-bit, I would be a happy camper :cool:
     
  19. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

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    Cleaner? Okay :)
    Very different. B4II had all organs integrated and access to lots of presets in a few seconds time, like Elektrik Pianos and Akoustik Pianos. The old NI stuff was ideal for live keyboard players.
     
  20. BIF

    BIF NI Product Owner

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    Wow, I was trolling for old threads and found this one. I want to reiterate my feeling that B4-II was the best and the Kontakt libraries don't come close. I just may have to start looking for a 64 bit replacement for B4-II (and it won't be Kontakt).

    NI just needs to revisit this. There is a void in the emulated organ market...