Vintage Organs vs B4II

Discussion in 'B4 & B4 II' started by fenderchris, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. fenderchris

    fenderchris New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Yep - B4II is still the best - I really wasted my money on VO (and it has made me wary of buying other NI libraries).

    I'm sure most of us would be happy to pay for a B4 update to 64-bit.
     
  2. rosindabow

    rosindabow NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    23
    Agree with everyone. Still one of the only 32bit Softsynths I run . It rocks!
     
  3. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,119
    What pitches are generated by leakage? I'd like to look into a script, or create samples that reproduce it.
     
  4. bigdaddywagon

    bigdaddywagon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    145
    Believe it or not, it's all pitches. I would roll off the lows but, it really is a mush in the background.
     
  5. nilesp

    nilesp NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    50
    From the Hammond wiki about Harmonic Leakage :)
    --
    The 96 ToneWheels are arranged in 48 bins. Each bin is kept shielded from adjacent bins by metal dividers. In each bin is a pair of DrivenGears turned by a DrivingGear. Tonewheels four octaves apart (i.e. a 2 tooth tonewheel and a 16 tooth tonewheel) are each connected to one driven gear. Because the tonewheels in each bin are not separated by a metal divider, some of the frequency generated by one tonewheel will magnetically "leak" into the sound of the other. Thus it is possible to hear faint tones four octaves higher or lower than the generated frequency.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
  6. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,119
    4 octaves? So if you press a key, you get leakage 4 octaves higher or lower from the 16', 5 1/3', 8', 4', s 2/3', 2', 1 3/5', 1 1/3' and 1' wheels? And from these wheels themselves too?
    That sounds like fun :)
     
  7. burgvogt

    burgvogt NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    19
    Hi B4 fans and addicts. It really is a shame to discontinue a product like B4 and replace it with inferior stuff. For all those that really dig the vintage drawbar sound there is no alternative but invest in Guido's VB3. IMO it's even better than any of the B4 versions and very affordable. There is even a 64 Bit version available now. In fact it is so good that master hammondist Tony Monaco uses and endorses it in its hardware version made by Crumar. Have a look at his homepage!
     
  8. rwhitney

    rwhitney NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    6
    I too purchased Vintage Keyboards but really miss B4 II. One thing missing is the ability to route other signals, such as guitar, through the rotary speaker effect, which apparently can't be done with Vintage Keyboards.
     
  9. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,119
    Correct, Vintage Organs is a Kontakt instrument and Kontakt won't work as effect. NI put the B4 rotor in GuitarRig too though, maybe even in the free version.
     
  10. rwhitney

    rwhitney NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    6
    Ah, that's great news (and I do have GuitarRig!). It doesn't have as much control as the B4 version, but at least it's something!
     
  11. GalbE

    GalbE NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    9
    I second the advice to try VB3 from GSI. It sounds really good and there is a 64-version. Price is a plus too...
     
  12. rwhitney

    rwhitney NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    6
    Unfortunately, no AAX support for Pro Tools 11. :(
     
  13. nilesp

    nilesp NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    50
    ....and stuff like Organ Type, Speaker Type, Percussion Level, Leakage, Tuning, etc. are all stored globally. So when you change e.g. the Speaker Type in one project, it will be changed for all projects using VB3. Hopefully the new VB3 will solve that
     
  14. jackn2mpu

    jackn2mpu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,082
    Resurrecting an old thread - in the Digital Performer forum we're discussing B4II and someone said they found out from NI that both B4II and VO were samples. I thought all the time that B4II was a modeler. anyone have an idea?
     
  15. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,119
    An NI insider wrote that on the forum years ago. B4 is about as old as Kontakt 1. It probably has a similar engine as Kontakt 1 with short looped samples and effects, controls and a unique skin built around it. Unlike the Akoustik and Elektrik Pianos the presets and samples cannot be loaded in Kontakt 2 and higher.
     
  16. nilesp

    nilesp NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    50
    I'm 99% certain B4 II does not generate the sound of the tonewheels (the amp could be modeled). When you open the tonewheel files (.tw0) as raw data in an audio editor you will hear the short samples (like nielsdolieslager said).
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  17. jackn2mpu

    jackn2mpu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,082
    Iteresting; I also started a thread in the Kontakt forum and the consensus is B4II is modeled. Looking at the B4II manual on page 6 it says it's modeled and not sampled.
     
  18. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,119
    Wouldn't be the first time terminologies get mixed up.
     
  19. jackn2mpu

    jackn2mpu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,082
    So which are you inferring NI got wrong? That B4II is modeled or sampled?
     
  20. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,119
    It's a combination so it's both correct - or both wrong. Samples of tone wheels are pushed through a model of the rest of the organ. It's like Vintage Organs except the modelling is better.