Vintage Organs vs B4II

Discussion in 'B4 & B4 II' started by fenderchris, Jul 25, 2012.

  1. tubeaudiogear

    tubeaudiogear NI Product Owner

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    I am not a Hammond player by any means but if you own Guitar Rig there is a little trick that can be used for better audio quality and flexibility. First switch off the crappy Rotary speaker effect in kontakt and send that audio to Guitar Rig and use this setup. What this does is allow you to choose different cabinets for bass and treble rotor, so in this example I am using a bass cabinet for the bass rotor and the tweed cab for the treble rotor, it's even possible to add different effects to each rotor...

    GuitarRigscreen.png
     
  2. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

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    Errr, I agree it's more flexible. The rotary effect in Kontakt is the same as the B4II and GR5 ones though and what you're doing is not using different speakers for bass and treble rotors, they can't be separated. What you're doing in your preset is a bass cabinet effect on the left and a small cabinet effect on the right and feed them into a rotary effect that does different things to higher and lower frequencies if you give them different settings.
    This is parallel processing.
     
  3. tubeaudiogear

    tubeaudiogear NI Product Owner

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    Nope, if you check the components reference manual of guitar rig you will find out that if 'cab tone' button is disabled in the Rotator effect (guitar rig), then left and right inputs are processed separately hence allow the user have different cabinets for treble and bass. I tried that and it works.
     
  4. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

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    Ha! I stand corrected. "the rotator routes the left incoming channel to the bass rotor and the right incoming channel to the treble rotor".
     
  5. jackn2mpu

    jackn2mpu NI Product Owner

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    I tried opening the tone wheel files in Adobe Audition and they won't open; tried in DSP Quattro and the opened but when played all there is is digital data noise and NO tones at all. So that kind of puts to rest the situation - B4II is modeled and not sampled. Even worse - playing the two side-by-side there's no comparison. VO has no balls to the sound like B4II has.
     
  6. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

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    Your tests failed so Nilesp is a liar?
    I checked myself. Downloaded Audacity, imported the harmonium.tw0 file and listened. I hear a scale of very short notes.
    If you want to put it to rest consider it software based PCM synthesis.
     
  7. jackn2mpu

    jackn2mpu NI Product Owner

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    Yes. Like I said I tried the test in two different audio editors; one couldn't open the file at all and the other gave nothing but digital noise. Even NI themselves said in the manual for B4II that it was not a sampled organ but modeled. Any way one looks at it - it's not a sampled vi in the usually used sense of the term. And certainly not sampled like VO.
     
  8. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    Yeah, it's using wavetables, which is again, not modelling, but more akin to sampling.
     
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  9. jackn2mpu

    jackn2mpu NI Product Owner

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    Maybe but still it's not sampling as the term is traditionally used.
     
  10. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    Wavetables are samples by definition.
     
  11. jackn2mpu

    jackn2mpu NI Product Owner

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  12. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    That one-cycle periodic waveform IS a lookup table in memory that's read through by a pointer (=sample).

    Then again, B4II is not using wavetable synthesis in Waldorf way (=interpolating between multiple single-cycle waveforms), it's using it more in the mentioned Sound Blaster kind of way (=sampling). Similarly to, say, Cakewalk Rapture (which also uses some other concepts, like mip-mapping the single-cycle waveforms, etc.).

    In any case it's not proper modeling, like, say, GSi VB3.
     
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  13. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

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  14. nilesp

    nilesp NI Product Owner

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    But does it really matter?
    What matters to me is: It is way more fun and satisfying to play with B4 II than VO.
     
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  15. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    Q.E.D.

    Thank you.
     
  16. nielsdolieslager

    nielsdolieslager NI Product Owner

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  17. jackn2mpu

    jackn2mpu NI Product Owner

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    I'm a little confused. On the website they sometimes show 2 drawbars for the bass and sometimes 3. I know most Hammond drawbar organs have just 2 drwabars for the bass. I did have one decades ago (an H143 console) that had 4 drawbars.

    Please excuse any reply notification you may have gotten from fatjack as that's an account I forgot I had and used the wrong login. This is the right account.