Vista 64-bit Compatibility

I noticed that there should be audio drivers for 64bit in the first half of 2008. Does anyone know how true to that statement native instruments currently is? I will be buying a notebook in the fall of 2008 and support for 64 bit and 4 gigs of ram will be very important to me. Can I expect a driver for my Audio Kontrol 1 by then? Obviously there has been lots of discussion over this issue and its becoming ever more clear that 64 bit is taking over. Waiting on your response NI. Will we see these drivers soon?

 

bump

 

*insert personal opinion*
It is?

Most of the people I know are staying with 32 bit for the present time. On all fronts (OS, hardware and software), x64 is lagging way behind where I thought it'd be by now.

As for Vista in general, there was an interesting article in the New York Times today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/business/09digi.html?em&ex=1205208000&en=279524f88716edb9&ei=5087

When will I personally go x64? When Vista's replacement comes out...
*/personal opinion*

ew

 

Hi auburn,

This is fairly typical of the responses I've been getting so far. My AK1 is currently nothing more than an expensive box of LEDs since I decided to run Vista 64.

Every time I ask about a driver for my OS I find myself in a debate over whether 64-bit brings benefits to music. That Vista itself is a bad choice is a new one. The end result in every case being that it's my fault for wanting to use this operating system and if I want a driver I can just wait, indefinitely. I don't know if these forums speak for NI but I've not had the warm, helpful dialogue I generally get when I decide to be someone's customer.

I personally think you're quite right that 64-bit is taking over. Computers are running out of the RAM to support modern games which have always driven hardware upgrades in the past. 4 and 8Gb RAM kits are on the price lists of most computer retailers these days.

I hope the situation changes at NI but for now I don't think that driver is coming or planned, sorry.

--Matt

PS. Kore 2 looked quite nice but after all this I think I'll just save my money.

 

ew, I not only want the extra ram for music but I have my other needs too. I have to run autocad and photoshop. Whilst these things might not take 4GB of ram right away, they soon will and I want to be prepared. It would just be nice to see NI or many of the other music companies out there keeping up with the trend. 64bit will be the way to go very soon. You can't ignore that. As far as the last post goes, NI did say they were planning 64bit drivers its just a matter of when.

 

So last year

I've just read EW's (the moderator) post. Can I please ask what the point is in quoting yesterday's NY Times article? The emails / statements that it presents as an argument against Vista were written 12 months ago!

I'm afraid that quoting how it was in Feb / March 2007 is no excuse for NI's failure to deliver by March 2008.

And I'm still waiting for someone on the forum to tell me if I will ever be able to use my B4D drawbar controller in Vista (64 bit preferred)

 

It used to be the latter quarter of 2007 (tentatively). From your post I'm assuming it's been put off until the first half of 2008. I've been waiting over a year so I'm skeptical that deadline will be met either.

I'm annoyed by the way that the driver has been shelved for so long and the way the official statements basically read 'Vista 64 doesn't do anything more, why did you put it on?'. It runs around 10% faster on the same hardware without 32-bit emulation, that's one of the reasons. Future-proofing was another, I do enough upgrading. Every application runs and the most trivial hardware in my machine has 64-bit drivers. I didn't buy it thinking about 64-bit, it all just worked.

On the other hand I bought an AK1 and I'm unable to use it. Then I'm pretty much told it's all my fault. The way NI regard 64-bit is the way it was regarded two years ago, but no other company is thinking like that now, you can have a 64-bit driver for pretty much everything at the moment and have been able to since the beginning of last year. Whoever is advising them is giving them inaccurate information.

--Matt

 

If you read the second page of the article, you'd notice:

1) the issues are still ongoing with every version of Vista
2) the MS people quoted in the article can't respond and say how things run now due to the lawsuit and MS's lawyers. Do you think for a minute that if everything was working correctly that MS wouldn't have the quoted people speak up?

ew

 

Vista may or may not suck / rock, Linux might or might not kick it's butt and Macs could be a product of divine intervention.

The opinions could go on forever though and they seem to be serving as a smokescreen for avoiding the main question. That is:

"Does anybody know if the 64-bit driver is due to emerge? Is it in development or on somebody's work schedule?"

--Matt

 

haha thanks matt for getting us back on track. that was my main concern in the first place, when is the driver coming out? not, "is it worth it for the driver to come out?" Obviously different people have different needs and all needs should be accomodated in my opinion regardless of whether its not in high demand at the time. 64bit is an option so it should'nt be left out.

 

The only issue I see ongoing in the Vista (mainly 32 bit) laptops I look after is the issue of an operating system that is more stable than any other version of Windows I have ever used - going right back to Windows 3.0. I can live with that issue !

Problems with Vista - well yes, you can find problems if you try to upgrade an old PC, but I put Vista RC1 on an AMD XP2200 machine, dating from 2002, with 512MB ram and an ATI 9250 graphics card. It ran, it didn't crash, and with a bit of cajoling, it ran the Aero interface.

But that's not the point. Each new operating system raises the bar in terms of minimum spec., and if Microsoft executives didn't realise this, then that's their lookout.

As far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of folks who have Vista on a reasonable spec. PC would never dream of going back to XP. I will only have a dual-boot capability on my PC (Vista 64bit / XP Pro 32bit) in order to use B4 II and the drawbar controller.

 

*personal opinion again*
I run a 4600x2 myself and there's no way with Vista's current stage that I'd ever allow it on my machine.

Also, I haven't had XP crash on me in at least three years. My OS install right now's over a year old, and it hums along almost as well as the day I installed it.

And as for your last statement, go and read the Ableton forums, the Cakewalk forums, etc. While some may agree with you, they're in the minority, as you'll be able to tell within a few minutes. Why do you think Dell's giving you the option to "downgrade" to XP?
*/ personal opinion*

ew

 

As far as I know, it's still on schedule.

ew

 

Sweet. When that comes along I'll be very happy indeed.

I'm with Kenneth... Vista has been a stable and fast ride for me at home and work. As a Microsoft developer I think the current wave of technologies coming from MS, including those built into Vista, are the most exciting tech advancements I've seen in my career.

I won't even try to convince anybody else. There's clearly an element of truth combined with an equal dose of MS-bashing going on in the reviews/blogs etc. That odd social phenomenon seems to have hit new heights the more MS have tried to appease their critics with public licenses, comparable security, quality-based release dates, open standards etc. Instead of giving their customers what they want it looks like they've added weight to their PR problem instead.

--Matt

 

Vista isn't my issue. If I could get a 64bit driver for XP I'd be just as happy. The only thing I like about vista is DX10 for gaming. lol, thats not saying much. The only security vista brings is to protect itself you know. And its just more of a resource hog. Give me a 64bit XP driver and i'll be set.

 

A Vista 64 driver should be coming before or around June-time from that auburn.

 

yup, so I guess all we can do is sit and cross our fingers!

 

I am on Vista 64, and I am using it for audio work. Many people are. It is stable, reliable, fast, and seems to be secure on my box. Continued claims that it is "not ready" or "people don't use it" are starting to sound like empty excuses to me.

I fervently hope that the powers that be at Native Instruments will take this message to heart:

1. I am not buying any hardware that does not have Vista 64 drivers available. Sorry, no more promises from ANYBODY. You bring the product, and I'll bring the cash (I do have it).

2. I am not buying any software that does not work with Vista 64. It's okay for now (for the next ten minutes or so, to be specific) if it's 32-bit software, as long as it RUNS on my RELIABLE Vista 64 system. But this offer expires in...nine minutes now.

And I shall repeat myself here. I have cash. No more promises. Show me the product, and I'll show you my cash (did I say I have it?)...


Every developer should take one thing away from my post. I am a paying customer. I use Vista 64 bit. I'm one of an ever increasing number with each passing day. I'm telling you what I am looking for AS A PAYING CUSTOMER.

Make your software and hardware 64-bit compliant, or I will not spend my money on your products.

Take that back to your focus groups and PLEASE get them to allocate some resources to TRUE and BONA FIDE 64 bit development!

 

This is, unfortunately, a pretty subjective... well... subject. The whole thing about wether vista is good or bad and wether 64 is good or bad depends entirely on what your relationship with it is.

<aimless rant>

I work in IT, we manage *lots* of servers (Mostly HP ML350s, lots of VMWare ESX hosting) and have *lots* of client workstations.

We try to make sure all of our clients use Windows XP - why?
a) It's had 6 years of patching to make it a stable product
b) Everyone is already familiar with it
c) Developers have had 6 years to make their products work with it

We don't care about minimum hardware spec or 32 bit cpus; just try and buy a 32 bit CPU these days. Manufacturers have made them the low end of the performance spectrum, they are ending their life cycle and like it or lump it they will be extinct in just a couple of short years. Sure you'll be able to keep using 32 bit Windows, do you have any idea how many businesses still run mission-critical 16 bit MS DOS-based applications?

I've seen workshops that have Windows 98 on an ancient desktop which does all of their payroll because the DOS app they work in doesn't even run in Win XPs compatability mode.

You'd never believe how many mainframe applications are still alive in the wild.

Trust me, we had this same debate years ago when computers went from 16 bit to 32 bit. "Who needs numbers that big anyway? Bigger numbers just mean i need more memory to store them!". It's VHS versus DVD, 8-track versus cassette, LP versus CD - it always turns into some kind of religious debate.

The newer technology will prevail and wishing won't make it otherwise.

We're not predjudiced against Vista or X64 at work, it's just that they aren't, as a rule, part of our clients workstation requirements.

Do we use 64 bit Windows 2003 on our servers? Sometimes yes, sometimes no; Terminal Servers, hell no - Forget about getting printer drivers working, it's too time consuming and often impossible. At the same token, sometimes you need a LOT of RAM and 32 bit Windows won't do it.

For some of our clients, 4GB of RAM has already become a limiting factor on their workstations and Vista 64 changes that.

Ultimately we make our decisions based on a right-tools-for-the-right-job basis. Do you NEED a 64 bit platform? Do you NEED Vista? If not, then worry about upgrading when the platform and the OS have had more patch time behind them and Developers stop playing catch up.

Developers, Manufacturers and IT support will always be looking at this kind of thing from a different angle to the average punter - they see a bigger picture because they have to cater to more people. For every user who says Vista works great, the tech folks have seen a dozen cases where Vista is a shambles. That's just because they see more of it than any single user does.

On that note, I have Vista 64 on my personal laptop and desktop - personally, I hate it. I have no reason for using it other than we are entitled to it through work. It was a bad call. Lesson learned I'd say that's what I get for installing Windows before SP1, but SP1 doesn't include fixes for my particular problems

I sure as hell wish I'd checked my Kontrols compatability with Vista64 before buying it (Windows that is!) Meanwhile, I wait patiently. The product (Guitar Rig) has made me happy enough that I'm confident these guys aren't just jerking us around - they're actually working on making this right.

They've done a lot of work for us, even though we've parted with money in exchange, a little forebearance won't do us any harm.

</aimless rant>

Anyhow, some people DO need Vista. And love it. So good on them

 

Hi. Thanks, I appreciate your thorough analysis. Yes, I am in IT, too. We are using 64 bit mode on all of our major servers and our mainframe systems, purely because of the increased memory addressability. Many applications have not yet been converted, but most of those run just fine in 32 bit mode.

But that's business software, not music-making software or virtual instruments.

Of course, my post above was simply "me to NI". I'm on Vista 64. I did it for the memory, but now I like it for the other stuff. Suffice to say, I'm NOT going back.

Therefore, I am now one less customer that they can count on who would be willing to pay any money for 32 bit applications.

And that is it. Biff, bam, boom. I am the customer. I've upgraded to the most current, most technologically advanced version of a major mainstream OS; not some fly-by-night version of some obscure OS.

So given that...if a hardware or software vendor wants my business, then they will play ball by my rules.

Vista has been out now for almost a year and a half. Audio and MIDI interfaces with stable 64-bit drivers are becoming easier and easier to find. Several major DAWs are either available in 64-bit, or they run stable in a 32-bit address space...but within the 64-bit OS.

The Vista 64 environment is reliable and stable. We have more and more people using it every day. SP1 has had surprisingly few issues, has corrected a number of known problems, and has improved performance for many systems.

I think the case has been made. The industry is moving forward.

As to Native Instruments. I am a Komplete 4 user. I held off on K5 because in late 2007, I reached the conclusion that K5 did not offer me much incentive to make the jump, and because I knew I'd be putting in Vista 64 sometime this year anyhow.

Surprisingly enough, some of K4's instruments still seem to work under Vista 64. But there are too many that crash, taking out my sound driver with them and forcing me to reboot. I can tolerate this inconvenience "for now."

But forgiveness only goes so far. Eventually, I will want to get down to business and get some work done. Vista 64 was not just released last month; it's been out for almost a year and a half now.

Developers should know by now what's up and what needs to be done to address issues and begin using the latest technology. It's not unreasonable for a consumer to expect that all new software should be compatible with the latest version of the OS.

As a Komplete 4 user, I would think that I am one of the PRIME TARGETS for Native Instruments' upcoming Komplete 6 upgrade. NI's marketing department would do well to keep me (and others like me) in mind.

My prior post was simply a friendly "heads-up" to Native Instruments that the wind has shifted, and that it may be time to look at the compass and map; and get some of those guys off of deck-swabbing detail, and onto the rigging to trim those sails.

I've been browsing KVR, and I see some interesting developments. Other vendors have jumped to 64-bit, and they are making this a marketing case for their products.

So why not Native Instruments? A public statement of some sort would be a great start, but really, I just want to start seeing products.